New engine build Scania DC1601 for our semi truckpuller.
- Thread starter tall boy
- Start date
jfaulkner
Douche Hunter
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2007
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PRI 2015 Indianapolis. Great motor sport show and to big to see it all in 3 days.
I met some companies and people involved in diesel tuning and to my surprise there is a demand for a more flexible diesel engine management but as I was thinking US and Canada have it all covert for the pickup truck marked using mostly OE ECU and rewriting the code for it to make it work for motor sport. As I understand some use BOSCH motorsport setting you back over 10K US on cost I think?
I general I get good feedback on what is needed or wanted and most of them want data logging in combination with the possibility of making there own controls for fuel pumps or wastegate control for example not having to go back to the ECU supplier to get things done.
Having the possibility the build control stuff is very tempting but as I know it will take time and effort before all this new freedom will come to good use and I think we need to get working on local support on the diesel end of things.
Also get a load of questions on the Cummins QSB or ISB engines how to get more power out of them. Some take out the safety valve on the commonrail and bock off so they can run more fuel pressure and yes this works but can be very dangerous. I think using the XPI injection system from a QSL9 Tier 4 engine will give some options as I think this system is a lot the same as what we use on the race truck and is able to run over 2500Bar or 36259 PSI fuel rail pressure and even making 200Bar more fuel pressure give a load more torque less smoke and EGT as you get by extending injector duration.
Cummins QSL9. I have one coming as a next week job after overhaul testing.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99JbPXwqSvc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99JbPXwqSvc[/ame]
I met some companies and people involved in diesel tuning and to my surprise there is a demand for a more flexible diesel engine management but as I was thinking US and Canada have it all covert for the pickup truck marked using mostly OE ECU and rewriting the code for it to make it work for motor sport. As I understand some use BOSCH motorsport setting you back over 10K US on cost I think?
I general I get good feedback on what is needed or wanted and most of them want data logging in combination with the possibility of making there own controls for fuel pumps or wastegate control for example not having to go back to the ECU supplier to get things done.
Having the possibility the build control stuff is very tempting but as I know it will take time and effort before all this new freedom will come to good use and I think we need to get working on local support on the diesel end of things.
Also get a load of questions on the Cummins QSB or ISB engines how to get more power out of them. Some take out the safety valve on the commonrail and bock off so they can run more fuel pressure and yes this works but can be very dangerous. I think using the XPI injection system from a QSL9 Tier 4 engine will give some options as I think this system is a lot the same as what we use on the race truck and is able to run over 2500Bar or 36259 PSI fuel rail pressure and even making 200Bar more fuel pressure give a load more torque less smoke and EGT as you get by extending injector duration.
Cummins QSL9. I have one coming as a next week job after overhaul testing.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99JbPXwqSvc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99JbPXwqSvc[/ame]
Big Boy Toys
New member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2010
- Messages
- 1,133
Thank for the link, haven't seen anything similar to these.
Dakar Rally 2016 Stage 4 and 5 marathon stages with no service and short after the start from stage 4 one of the mudguard came lose and it took them close to an hour to have this fixe it still not able to go full atack on the stages for these two days as the ricks was to big that they get more damage to the mudguard bracked so they droped as low a 32 place in the rankings due to this.
Hi altiude. 4700 meter max. stage 4,5 and 6 vary from 3700 tot 4700 meter hight so in the ECU settings for fuel meetering and boost control your better save than sorry as running a turbo to the max @ hours on end will give them a hard live. Also smoke must be withing limits but it seems we got it well covert on that parts as well running as always 730c EGT and powerlos is not that great.
Stage 6 they could go full atack again jumping up to 26 place allready so that’s looking promesing to hit the top 20 as this will be team goal and the best is yet to come, big dunes as so far most of the stages were WRC and these are not realy there best thing.
Hi altiude. 4700 meter max. stage 4,5 and 6 vary from 3700 tot 4700 meter hight so in the ECU settings for fuel meetering and boost control your better save than sorry as running a turbo to the max @ hours on end will give them a hard live. Also smoke must be withing limits but it seems we got it well covert on that parts as well running as always 730c EGT and powerlos is not that great.
Stage 6 they could go full atack again jumping up to 26 place allready so that’s looking promesing to hit the top 20 as this will be team goal and the best is yet to come, big dunes as so far most of the stages were WRC and these are not realy there best thing.
The 3D simulations makes it possible to produce engine parts ranging from pistons design up to very complex camshaft designs for electronic activated pump injector units.
We can now build engine parts that will perfectly fit so if we have to build a cam and pistons we now longer have to build in stages as it not that easy to get the camshaft whiting the specifications as on most of the engine we work on you have a lot of odd angle changes and pivot points so changing cam lift for example gives a massive offset to real valve timing.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HudeyTA5TBY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HudeyTA5TBY[/ame]
The Euro 6 Rally truck is going well and yesterday rally stage until wavepoint 5 they hold 15 position but on the last part of the stage they had to change a tyre so they dropped back to a 24 position now holding a 23 position in the overall ranking.
There are also some electrical problems as the OE wire loom seems to be falling apart as yesterday the wastegate control and oil temp sensing did not work.
We know the turbo can take a lot of punishment so they blocked the airline from the intake manifold to the turbo giving 0,5 or 7PSI more max boost and the wastegate still opens on EMP but big chance is the ECU starts limiting fuel as discharge temp from the compressor or intake temp will prevent hi EGT as they have to run full power hours on end.
To get some idea on what they have to deal with have a look here. http://www.dakar.com/dakar/2016/us/stage-1200/videos-galery.html
We can now build engine parts that will perfectly fit so if we have to build a cam and pistons we now longer have to build in stages as it not that easy to get the camshaft whiting the specifications as on most of the engine we work on you have a lot of odd angle changes and pivot points so changing cam lift for example gives a massive offset to real valve timing.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HudeyTA5TBY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HudeyTA5TBY[/ame]
The Euro 6 Rally truck is going well and yesterday rally stage until wavepoint 5 they hold 15 position but on the last part of the stage they had to change a tyre so they dropped back to a 24 position now holding a 23 position in the overall ranking.
There are also some electrical problems as the OE wire loom seems to be falling apart as yesterday the wastegate control and oil temp sensing did not work.
We know the turbo can take a lot of punishment so they blocked the airline from the intake manifold to the turbo giving 0,5 or 7PSI more max boost and the wastegate still opens on EMP but big chance is the ECU starts limiting fuel as discharge temp from the compressor or intake temp will prevent hi EGT as they have to run full power hours on end.
To get some idea on what they have to deal with have a look here. http://www.dakar.com/dakar/2016/us/stage-1200/videos-galery.html
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Rally Stage 10 and 11. The real Dakar Deal sand and dunes and feshfesh miles on end.
Stage 10 went very well running 16 place on the stage up to the last wavepoint but than bad luck. A broken tyre sent them back to 24 place losing more than 30 min to change it but the speed en engine power is there to prow over the feshfesh and take the dunes.
Stage 11 same story after 2 wavepoints holding 19 place and short after steady on 18 place until on of the front shocks broke off hitting the slave steering cylinder so they had to do emergency repairs and slow down a lot ending up on 28 place on the end of the stage.
Currently they are holding 21 position overall and the goal is to end up into the top 20.
Still two rally days to go so any thing can happen.
Stage 10 went very well running 16 place on the stage up to the last wavepoint but than bad luck. A broken tyre sent them back to 24 place losing more than 30 min to change it but the speed en engine power is there to prow over the feshfesh and take the dunes.
Stage 11 same story after 2 wavepoints holding 19 place and short after steady on 18 place until on of the front shocks broke off hitting the slave steering cylinder so they had to do emergency repairs and slow down a lot ending up on 28 place on the end of the stage.
Currently they are holding 21 position overall and the goal is to end up into the top 20.
Still two rally days to go so any thing can happen.
We have done it! Finch Le Dakar Rally 2016 23e place overall.
We aimed for a top 20 position but this did not happen due to many WRC rally stages on it’s not the favourite type of stage for the driver and to be honest improvement to the suspension is needed to perform better on these gravel roads. And believe me I know as I have been driving rally’s for many year winning loads of rally’s and good breaks and suspension will do a load more than big engine performance so I hope the team will start working on improvements on that part.
Feshfesh and dunes is a better story and the layout of this truck is better for this type of terrain as it got the speed and power to take the sand dunes in one attempt as before having to find a different root to get to the same wave point so on that part we are on the same level of performance as the factory teams like Kamaz Iveco and MAN and running these very heavy stages we jump into mid top 20 stage time so good improvement is made there as well.
Low-end power. Yes we are short of this compared to the factory team and before I want to jump over to a BorgWarner VNT turbo I want to test a load of things with the S400SX we are now using as a VNT makes things more complicated as need to monitor turbo RPM and EGT a lot more and as simple as it sound every component can break down and turbo RPM and EGT become more critical on a VNT turbo we have to reduce more engine power if one of these two sensors fail to be save.
But we are not finished with the S400SX as we now know we can run this turbo a lot harder than only 350Kpa max or 36 PSI. 400Kpa or 43 PSI will not hurt it.
We aimed for a top 20 position but this did not happen due to many WRC rally stages on it’s not the favourite type of stage for the driver and to be honest improvement to the suspension is needed to perform better on these gravel roads. And believe me I know as I have been driving rally’s for many year winning loads of rally’s and good breaks and suspension will do a load more than big engine performance so I hope the team will start working on improvements on that part.
Feshfesh and dunes is a better story and the layout of this truck is better for this type of terrain as it got the speed and power to take the sand dunes in one attempt as before having to find a different root to get to the same wave point so on that part we are on the same level of performance as the factory teams like Kamaz Iveco and MAN and running these very heavy stages we jump into mid top 20 stage time so good improvement is made there as well.
Low-end power. Yes we are short of this compared to the factory team and before I want to jump over to a BorgWarner VNT turbo I want to test a load of things with the S400SX we are now using as a VNT makes things more complicated as need to monitor turbo RPM and EGT a lot more and as simple as it sound every component can break down and turbo RPM and EGT become more critical on a VNT turbo we have to reduce more engine power if one of these two sensors fail to be save.
But we are not finished with the S400SX as we now know we can run this turbo a lot harder than only 350Kpa max or 36 PSI. 400Kpa or 43 PSI will not hurt it.
The only Cummins engine used is in the Ginaf Power rally semi truck. They use the Chinese build Cummins ISZ 13 engine. 850Hp and not a very good job on reducing smoke and this is Cummins being very protective about things. Let us have a go on this engine I would say. LOL.
They did not get far as the gear train to the compressor was damaged on the marathon stage with no technical backup so exit rally.
On of the interesting things on this semi it got 4 wheel steering.
About 21 minutes in to this youtube movie.
[ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmjET-PFLD0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmjET-PFLD0[/ame]
[ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DcTILYMUl4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DcTILYMUl4[/ame]
They did not get far as the gear train to the compressor was damaged on the marathon stage with no technical backup so exit rally.
On of the interesting things on this semi it got 4 wheel steering.
About 21 minutes in to this youtube movie.
[ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmjET-PFLD0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmjET-PFLD0[/ame]
[ame="www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DcTILYMUl4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DcTILYMUl4[/ame]
HeTheAethyr!
New member
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2010
- Messages
- 317
I could see how Cummins wouldn't want an advertised/production engine exhibiting a smoke show in public.
That fuel pump has been used for years and carries the same foot print as a P7100. These pumps are known to chatter lifters from hydraulic harmonics and destroying internal camshaft. Also being the engine is governed at 2200~ in its platform, you float the pumps lifters at higher RPMS. You'd need a lot of air down low.... But would flow the fuel you need!
That fuel pump has been used for years and carries the same foot print as a P7100. These pumps are known to chatter lifters from hydraulic harmonics and destroying internal camshaft. Also being the engine is governed at 2200~ in its platform, you float the pumps lifters at higher RPMS. You'd need a lot of air down low.... But would flow the fuel you need!
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