Explaination of the movie "Left Behind" and the Rapture

DIESEL_POWER said:
I'd like to expound on this... A Bible based church will not have a rock band in there for music, or a rapper singing pastor.
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Why not? If it reaches unbelievers I see no problem.

I've never met a rapper singer pastor so I can't comment on that but I can say there is just as much meaning while worshipping with a rock band as a piano and organ.

I've also never read in The Bible that electrical instruments are not to be used. Could be wrong but I don't think I am.
 
estrada5.9 said:
Why not? If it reaches unbelievers I see no problem.

I've never met a rapper singer pastor so I can't comment on that but I can say there is just as much meaning while worshipping with a rock band as a piano and organ.

I've also never read in The Bible that electrical instruments are not to be used. Could be wrong but I don't think I am.
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In psalms and proverbs and other books of the bible were told to make a JOYFUL noise unto the Lord. Also we are told that satan himself was the leader of music in heaven before he was cast out...also we are told that satan is the father of sin, and destruction, and of confusion among many others.

Rock music has a destructive nature and sound to it, as can some other music, it also brings to the hearer the remembrance of the worlds music, we are told as Christians to " come out from among them, and to not touch the unclean thing", also to "abstain from the presence of evil"

Also the bible tells us what instruments can be used, stringed instruments are Ok and others. Job 21:12 - They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ.
Psalms 98:5 - Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.

Psalms 95:2 - Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.

Psalms 92:3 - Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.


Now the drums are not listed anywhere in scripture, and for good reason, there history has always been to summon the spirits of darkness. Satan has put them everywhere in the music world...

As for what is acceptable and whats not, well thats a good question. im convinced that the Word and Holy spirit will convict you about what is good and what is bad to listen too if you are truley saved.
 
How many of you guys have actually read the books? If you haven't, I highly recommend them before watching the old movies or the new one. They were excellent.
 
DIESEL_POWER said:
In psalms and proverbs and other books of the bible were told to make a JOYFUL noise unto the Lord. Also we are told that satan himself was the leader of music in heaven before he was cast out...also we are told that satan is the father of sin, and destruction, and of confusion among many others.

Rock music has a destructive nature and sound to it, as can some other music, it also brings to the hearer the remembrance of the worlds music, we are told as Christians to " come out from among them, and to not touch the unclean thing", also to "abstain from the presence of evil"

Also the bible tells us what instruments can be used, stringed instruments are Ok and others. Job 21:12 - They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ.
Psalms 98:5 - Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.

Psalms 95:2 - Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.

Psalms 92:3 - Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.


Now the drums are not listed anywhere in scripture, and for good reason, there history has always been to summon the spirits of darkness. Satan has put them everywhere in the music world...

As for what is acceptable and whats not, well thats a good question. im convinced that the Word and Holy spirit will convict you about what is good and what is bad to listen too if you are truley saved.
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Job is speaking of the wicked in Job 21:12 as I read it.

I believe music can be a weapon. I don't believe only certain instruments are allowed.

Not arguing just proving a point of context of the scripture quoted matters.



Job 21 New International Version (NIV)

Job
21*Then Job replied:

2*“Listen carefully to my words;
****let this be the consolation you give me.
3*Bear with me while I speak,
****and after I have spoken, mock on.
4*“Is my complaint directed to a human being?
****Why should I not be impatient?
5*Look at me and be appalled;
****clap your hand over your mouth.
6*When I think about this, I am terrified;
****trembling seizes my body.
7*Why do the wicked live on,
****growing old and increasing in power?
8*They see their children established around them,
****their offspring before their eyes.
9*Their homes are safe and free from fear;
****the rod of God is not on them.
10*Their bulls never fail to breed;
****their cows calve and do not miscarry.
11*They send forth their children as a flock;
****their little ones dance about.
12*They sing to the music of timbrel and lyre;
****they make merry to the sound of the pipe.
13*They spend their years in prosperity
****and go down to the grave in peace.[a]
14*Yet they say to God, ‘Leave us alone!
****We have no desire to know your ways.
15*Who is the Almighty, that we should serve him?
****What would we gain by praying to him?’
16*But their prosperity is not in their own hands,
****so I stand aloof from the plans of the wicked.
17*“Yet how often is the lamp of the wicked snuffed out?
****How often does calamity come upon them,
****the fate God allots in his anger?
18*How often are they like straw before the wind,
****like chaff swept away by a gale?
19*It is said, ‘God stores up the punishment of the wicked for their children.’
****Let him repay the wicked, so that they themselves will experience it!
20*Let their own eyes see their destruction;
****let them drink the cup of the wrath of the Almighty.
21*For what do they care about the families they leave behind
****when their allotted months come to an end?
22*“Can anyone teach knowledge to God,
****since he judges even the highest?
23*One person dies in full vigor,
****completely secure and at ease,
24*well nourished in body,
****bones rich with marrow.
25*Another dies in bitterness of soul,
****never having enjoyed anything good.
26*Side by side they lie in the dust,
****and worms cover them both.
27*“I know full well what you are thinking,
****the schemes by which you would wrong me.
28*You say, ‘Where now is the house of the great,
****the tents where the wicked lived?’
29*Have you never questioned those who travel?
****Have you paid no regard to their accounts—
30*that the wicked are spared from the day of calamity,
****that they are delivered from[c] the day of wrath?
31*Who denounces their conduct to their face?
****Who repays them for what they have done?
32*They are carried to the grave,
****and watch is kept over their tombs.
33*The soil in the valley is sweet to them;
****everyone follows after them,
****and a countless throng goes[d] before them.
34*“So how can you console me with your nonsense?
****Nothing is left of your answers but falsehood!”
 
estrada5.9 said:
Job is speaking of the wicked in Job 21:12 as I read it.

I believe music can be a weapon. I don't believe only certain instruments are allowed.

Not arguing just proving a point of context of the scripture quoted matters.



Job 21 New International Version (NIV)

Job
21*Then Job replied:

2*“Listen carefully to my words;
****let this be the consolation you give me.
3*Bear with me while I speak,
****and after I have spoken, mock on.
4*“Is my complaint directed to a human being?
****Why should I not be impatient?
5*Look at me and be appalled;
****clap your hand over your mouth.
6*When I think about this, I am terrified;
****trembling seizes my body.
7*Why do the wicked live on,
****growing old and increasing in power?
8*They see their children established around them,
****their offspring before their eyes.
9*Their homes are safe and free from fear;
****the rod of God is not on them.
10*Their bulls never fail to breed;
****their cows calve and do not miscarry.
11*They send forth their children as a flock;
****their little ones dance about.
12*They sing to the music of timbrel and lyre;
****they make merry to the sound of the pipe.
13*They spend their years in prosperity
****and go down to the grave in peace.[a]
14*Yet they say to God, ‘Leave us alone!
****We have no desire to know your ways.
15*Who is the Almighty, that we should serve him?
****What would we gain by praying to him?’
16*But their prosperity is not in their own hands,
****so I stand aloof from the plans of the wicked.
17*“Yet how often is the lamp of the wicked snuffed out?
****How often does calamity come upon them,
****the fate God allots in his anger?
18*How often are they like straw before the wind,
****like chaff swept away by a gale?
19*It is said, ‘God stores up the punishment of the wicked for their children.’
****Let him repay the wicked, so that they themselves will experience it!
20*Let their own eyes see their destruction;
****let them drink the cup of the wrath of the Almighty.
21*For what do they care about the families they leave behind
****when their allotted months come to an end?
22*“Can anyone teach knowledge to God,
****since he judges even the highest?
23*One person dies in full vigor,
****completely secure and at ease,
24*well nourished in body,
****bones rich with marrow.
25*Another dies in bitterness of soul,
****never having enjoyed anything good.
26*Side by side they lie in the dust,
****and worms cover them both.
27*“I know full well what you are thinking,
****the schemes by which you would wrong me.
28*You say, ‘Where now is the house of the great,
****the tents where the wicked lived?’
29*Have you never questioned those who travel?
****Have you paid no regard to their accounts—
30*that the wicked are spared from the day of calamity,
****that they are delivered from[c] the day of wrath?
31*Who denounces their conduct to their face?
****Who repays them for what they have done?
32*They are carried to the grave,
****and watch is kept over their tombs.
33*The soil in the valley is sweet to them;
****everyone follows after them,
****and a countless throng goes[d] before them.
34*“So how can you console me with your nonsense?
****Nothing is left of your answers but falsehood!”
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I can quote a whole chapter as well, but i dont feel its needed to see what the Lord has to say about music, Psalms says it loud and clear. Also i would use extreme caution with the NIV bible, many changed words and phrases vs a KJV. context can change as a result of this.

Psalms 98:5 - Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.

Psalms 95:2 - Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.

Psalms 92:3 - Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.
 
Again, context. Wade, give up the copy-paste, hear-regurgitate theology and read the Bible. One should also note, the timbrel is a tambourine. Which is a percussive instrument, just like a drum.
 
I'm sure that David didn't have that many instruments in the Old Testament times. Since we are under God's Grace and living in the Church age, what does the New Testament say about musical instruments?

EDIT: 1 Chronicles does talk about lyres, Harps and Cymbals. NIV.
 
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I think you missed my point completely. Taking scripture out of context does no one any good.

Job 21:12 was out of context. Job was talking about the wicked as he stated in Job 21:7 just five verses before. You used that scripture as proof for your statements.

I'll leave this thread at that.
 
oldestof11 said:
Again, context. Wade, give up the copy-paste, hear-regurgitate theology and read the Bible. One should also note, the timbrel is a tambourine. Which is a percussive instrument, just like a drum.
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Wrong this is a not at all like a drum!
estrada5.9 said:
I think you missed my point completely. Taking scripture out of context does no one any good.

Job 21:12 was out of context. Job was talking about the wicked as he stated in Job 21:7 just five verses before. You used that scripture as proof for your statements.

I'll leave this thread at that.
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Wicked, like rock and roll music? If thats not the context you refered to then see my psalms references. or does that not apply?
 

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Kdubya said:
I'm sure that David didn't have that many instruments in the Old Testament times. Since we are under God's Grace and living in the Church age, what does the New Testament say about musical instruments?

EDIT: 1 Chronicles does talk about lyres, Harps and Cymbals. NIV.
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Signing praise to God hasent changed, Bible Says God is the same today tomorrow and forever!

Only thing Different from OT to NT is the covenant. We are no longer under the Law, but under grace if saved.

Romans 6:14 KJV "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."
 
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Here is the thing, unless God explicitly says NO, then it is up for debate.

The thing Wade and many others need to learn are the 3 degrees of issues:

1st degree includes God, Christ, their sovereignty... basically the Apostles Creed
2nd degree is the grey area the church as a whole must decide
3rd degree is personal convictions.

This is where a lot of people get messed up.The make the 3rd their 1st and the 1st, their 3rd.

Unless you see something that blatantly contradicts a 1st Degree, there is no point in calling another Christian's faith into question.

Wade's use of KJV is a 3rd degree.
 
oldestof11 said:
Here is the thing, unless God explicitly says NO, then it is up for debate.

The thing Wade and many others need to learn are the 3 degrees of issues:

1st degree includes God, Christ, their sovereignty... basically the Apostles Creed
2nd degree is the grey area the church as a whole must decide
3rd degree is personal convictions.

This is where a lot of people get messed up.The make the 3rd their 1st and the 1st, their 3rd.

Unless you see something that blatantly contradicts a 1st Degree, there is no point in calling another Christian's faith into question.

Wade's use of KJV is a 3rd degree.
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Sounds good if you dont know any better, What bible school did you go to?


The Holy Spirits job is to convict,Discern, and to comfort, not yourself. Otherwise you putting your authority higher than Gods!
 
DIESEL_POWER said:
Sounds good if you dont know any better, What bible school did you go to?


The Holy Spirits job is to convict,Discern, and to comfort, not yourself. Otherwise you putting your authority higher than Gods!
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And under whose authority makes the KING JAMES Bible THE only Bible to get? It was only authorized for public sale by a MAN!

Who are you to convict me? The Holy Spirit wasn't hiring last I knew. You have no authority, biblical or otherwise, to sit there and speak to me in that manner.

Take your "schooling" and shove it up your Pharisaical ass. You're associated with the brood of vipers Christ hated. You have taken God and made a mockery out of Him with your mindless slobbering. Not once did you give an original thought but threw up whatever it is you were taught. Not once did you take any question and make an answer that was your own without the Holy Google to help you. You have put yourself above others here with your bible, your education, your pompous strutting about, your puffed up spirit, your public "shaking of your tithe". You have done nothing but use God for you own public gain.

You would do well to sit down, shut up, and rethink your life, you goat.

Since I don't know any better with theology, REFUTE MY CLAIMS. Until then, I am done with you!
 
oldestof11 said:
And under whose authority makes the KING JAMES Bible THE only Bible to get? It was only authorized for public sale by a MAN!

Who are you to convict me? The Holy Spirit wasn't hiring last I knew. You have no authority, biblical or otherwise, to sit there and speak to me in that manner.

Take your "schooling" and shove it up your Pharisaical ass. You're associated with the brood of vipers Christ hated. You have taken God and made a mockery out of Him with your mindless slobbering. Not once did you give an original thought but threw up whatever it is you were taught. Not once did you take any question and make an answer that was your own without the Holy Google to help you. You have put yourself above others here with your bible, your education, your pompous strutting about, your puffed up spirit, your public "shaking of your tithe". You have done nothing but use God for you own public gain.

You would do well to sit down, shut up, and rethink your life, you goat.

Since I don't know any better with theology, REFUTE MY CLAIMS. Until then, I am done with you!
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Boy I'm glad God has given me restraint. I would never talk like that to another supposed Christian, in public.
Especially when trying to share the love and knowledge of Christ!
I have no need to refute anything you say with anything other than the bible, it's what you and I will be judged by!

I will pray for you though.
 
Nothing like a self described 'Christian' to start preaching on a public diesel forum, only to have everyone butcher his logic and see exactly what his hidden agenda is.

Wade, you didn't answer my previous question.
 
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