Horse-torque Duramax vs. Cummins

Seems like us duramax guys are still behind the cummins guys when it comes to big horsepower competition trucks, im speaking from sled pulling experience not dyno numbers or drag racing. What are we lacking? Just not enough R&D? More years of testing different nozzles, nozzle spray angles, pistons, heads, etc. etc....would a switch to a mechanical fuel system aid in bringing us closer together?

Just creating this topic to get a different style discussion going on with guys who have expierence in big horsepower applications to see what everybody else is thinking. (started this on duramaxdiesels.com and it quickly went to facebook diesel goofs commenting)

Is it more cost effective to just build a cummins? Are they a better performing powerplant at 1500hp+?

Interested to hear what you guys have to say

Thanks,
Muff

It looks like the thread came around and some of the pullers got the answer. My opinion, we've benefited in the best way possible from tractor pullers and their checkbooks. All the engine setups they developed for their inline engines, plus the injection pumps and injector combos to match pistons, heads, cams. Hard to beat that many minds working toward the same solutions.

One thing I noticed in that thread that I was surprised to read, several of the guys share sentiments about Wagler doing a lot of work but not delivering one product that's 100% He's the big duramax player and has 300 projects that just rev up in parking lots

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Pudge said:

It looks like the thread came around and some of the pullers got the answer. My opinion, we've benefited in the best way possible from tractor pullers and their checkbooks. All the engine setups they developed for their inline engines, plus the injection pumps and injector combos to match pistons, heads, cams. Hard to beat that many minds working toward the same solutions.

Hard to beat expierence!

One thing I noticed in that thread that I was surprised to read, several of the guys share sentiments about Wagler doing a lot of work but not delivering one product that's 100% He's the big duramax player and has 300 projects that just rev up in parking lots

We’ll see what the future hold once Jeremy gets more time and data.

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I’d like to see a sigma pumped Duramax perform after about 3 years of serious testing. Hopefully Chris has good luck this year.

IMO Dmaxs do just fine at most levels. I have a close friend that has consistently finished well alongside Cummins in limited pro and even at SSD levels the horsepower that Dmaxs put out are enough to compete well on most tracks.

Not too many at Prostock levels out there but the ones I've seen can be competitive, less so than at limited pro and SSD, though.

Reliability of Dmaxs at higher HP is where I see them suffering and less about power.

takedown95 said:

IMO Dmaxs do just fine at most levels. I have a close friend that has consistently finished well alongside Cummins in limited pro and even at SSD levels the horsepower that Dmaxs put out are enough to compete well on most tracks.

Not too many at Prostock levels out there but the ones I've seen can be competitive, less so than at limited pro and SSD, though.

Reliability of Dmaxs at higher HP is where I see them suffering and less about power.

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Hmmmmm

When I talked to Wagler at UCC about the high horsepower Duramax's and the lack of success they have had at UCC relative to the Cummins. His response was reliability; specifically of the connecting rods. He showed me his billet rods for both the duramax and the cummins side by side. The duramax rod has literally half the bearing surface as the cummins. Nevermmind the fact that there isn't enough clearance in the crank case for a rod with the cross section of the cummins. His solution was to use aluminum rods similar to a top fueler to absorb some of the shock and help cushion the rod bearings to extend their effective life in competition. Down side is aluminum rods need regular replacement and most diesel guys don't want that headache.

Bottom line from that conversation is it's easier push a cummins platform harder with different combinations because the lower end just put's up with abuse of harder testing and more extreme combinations. Duramax cylinder head flow, cams, injectors, cp3's are all more than able to push to the same level or farther than the cummins.

Honestly makes me think back to the Toyota Supra. Back in the mid 90's pushing 1000hp + out of 3.0 motor was insanity. The bullet proof nature of it's inline 6 led to experimentation with ever crazier combo's because the engine just kept going no matter what you threw at them. Eventually someone tried something crazy enough to get 1000hp out of 3 liters the motor survived and viola a legend was born.

Not to mention time to work stuff out as said power levels