Need some insulation advise

My good friend and his dad built their sister a metal building house. I helped throughout. It was about a 30x40 or so and they had the entire thing spray foamed inside to full thickness they could. I think it cost around $7000.


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davem3261 said:
I also have trusses in my garage. I used r19 un- faced Batts above the bottom 2x4 running them perpendicular to the trusses. Then I used r19 faced Batts in under that in between the trusses. Total r38 Then I sheet rocked it. You will need to cover it with something or they will fall down. Spray foam would have been way to expensive for a space I only heat when I'm working out there. It does hold the heat in quite well. FYI I got a quote from a local building supply (kamco) they were 40% cheaper than hd or lowes. I would guess it would cost about a grand to insulate and sheet rock with fiberglass.
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Thanks, I know foam is expensive, but the more I think about it, I am saying 3.5"(R22) spray foam walls, 6"(R39) on the actual underside of the roof sheeting. I would think I would only keep it around 50-60, so it should be pretty cheap to heat. I think I would do hot water floor heat.
 
One stage at a time. Start by running vent troughs to the sofits to allow air flow after the blown in is 2' thick, then visqueening below the ceiling joists and then rock it all in. Then loose insulation blown in as thick as you can. I've got 2' over the entire ranch and still add another couple bags here and there. The roof is the main source of the heat loss. Doing that first will make the biggest impact. Don't forget 30 lbs of rat pellets up there cause thats perfect for them if you do it nicely.

Then move to sealing all spaces around the wall openings with spray foam(Small cans) or a thin layer of professional foam over the whole wall. Then regular batting in the walls at the appropriate thickness for the cavity. Then rock that. People leave out drywall a lot but its very cheap and stops air movement very effectively. It also has a small R value where as wood or metal has next to nothing.

Using those methods my attached 3.5 car will normally hold 20-25* above ambient without a heat source except sharing 1 wall of the house and attic. When I'm working out there I will leave the door to kitchen open. I can leave it open for days at a time and barely see $5 increase in the gas bill. With door open I can hold 50* at 15* ambient.

Also, green hinges will help keep the overhead door tight against the weather strip. These are next on my list. And you can easily take them when you move. There are also better versions of the overhead door weatherstripping if the existing stuff is flimsy.
 
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Broaner said:
Also, green hinges will help keep the overhead door tight against the weather strip. These are next on my list. And you can easily take them when you move. There are also better versions of the overhead door weatherstripping if the existing stuff is flimsy.
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I had to look up green hinges......I need some of them Those are awesome.
 
A blower door test or a smoke test might help locate your air leaks. Air leaks cause a lot of heating/cooling loss


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Agreed. The air leaks can be stopped very easily with a few cans of great stuff. Do it around all external openings even if you don't feel air. This is why a thin layer of the pro spray foam would work real well. Air leaks and closing the ceiling are the biggest improvements. Not much point in focusing on anything else until those 2 are done.

4x4dually said:
I had to look up green hinges......I need some of them Those are awesome.
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All the reviews on them are amazing. Only downside I can see is that it will wear out the weatherstrip quicker from the extra pressure.
 
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4x4dually said:
The thing is.....if moisture gets in, yes, it will trap it. The solution is, build your crap so it won't get moisture in it! LOL
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That's not how it works.

A tight structure needs to have an air handler to deal with moisture and stagnant air. We recommend air handlers for all our insulated buildings because of how tight they are, and the problems that arise with tight buildings holding moist dead air.

If you don't want to deal with an air handler, just build it to allow some passage or exchange of air. That's how damn near every building in this country gets away without one, they all leak to a degree.
 
I built my shop a little over 3 years ago. My long term plan was to have it heated and cooled with a 5 ton Heat Pump or something along those lines. The shop is 40' x 80' with 14' tall walls. I have 3 - 12'x12' insulated doors and 2 insulated walk doors. The back door is entry into what will one day be a commercial kitchen. So I have a kitchen sized room with a bathroom off of it and a compressor room at the end where I also store all my painting crap.

The building is a polebarn with 26 gauge exterior steel. I had 4" of open cell spray foam put in before I closed up the interior with 29 gauge steel. Winter time right now I'm using 2 of those oil filled radiators and a little oscillating heater to keep it above freezing in there. Summer time I'm just opening doors and windows and running fans for the time being, it does get very humid in there but I don't have moisture dripping off of stuff either. I've had 3 ceiling fans sitting in boxes for over a year that need to be installed and I need to add more lights at the same time.

Love the foam insulation as it makes winter work very nice inside the shop as that's where I spend most of my time in the winter working on projects. Summer I'm busy outside on the farm or racing my mud truck.

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Packed in with vehicles ready for hail storm that didn't happen
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That foam sure does look awesome. I got a few friends that do it and I'm gonna have to hit them up when the time comes
 
Bringing this back up because my pole building is finally standing and I have to decide on an insulation plan. 40x64x16

I am waiting on a spray foam estimate (should be done in the next day or 2). If the numbers I have heard are semi-accurate, I think it could be $9500+ for 2" over the roof and side walls. That estimate includes 8' of white steel liner on the walls. This was the minimum amount I though I could be happy with.

My next best option, in my opinion, is the Morton building plan which includes hanging Johns Manville PEBS blankets between the poles, a vapor barrier, then girts for interior tin. I am also considering adding a layer of warehouse foil radiant barrier on the exterior side of the insulation blankets. This would be accompanied with cellulose blown in the ceiling. This reduces the extra framing associated with 16-24" bats. If my estimates are accurate there this option would be about $3000 cheaper with the whole interior lined with white steel.

The other insulation part I am trying to iron out is the concrete pad. I am not doing radiant floor heat so I do not plan on insulating under the entire pad. I do want to insulate the perimeter of the pad.

One option is having putting on another treated 2x6 below the current base board on the poles and having the spray foam guy put 2" on the boards before the pour.

The second option is 2" foam in a trench around the perimeter of the building. The price I was quoted for a 4x8 sheet of 2" XPS was $38 per sheet, so about $500 for the perimeter.
 
I didn't do anything on my concrete pad, only thing I wish I had done was put a vapor barrier under it. Oh well.

I spent just under 10k for 4" of spray foam on the walls and roof. My interior tin kit of white 29 gauge metal was 5500.00 for floor to ceiling and full ceiling coverage. Didn't want to take a chance on stray sparks getting into the insulation. Had that happen to a friend and he lost the whole building and everything in it.
 
I don't think that insulating the concrete pad gets discussed much outside of the radiant floor heat guys. The more I look into it, I think at least insulating around the perimeter of the slab is worth it.

I would prefer full interior coverage as well. Another reason why I will probably not end up spray foaming, as much as I would like to.
 
97crewcab said:
I don't think that insulating the concrete pad gets discussed much outside of the radiant floor heat guys. The more I look into it, I think at least insulating around the perimeter of the slab is worth it.

I would prefer full interior coverage as well. Another reason why I will probably not end up spray foaming, as much as I would like to.
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What I think brings up an interesting point, is insulating say 4 feet down and say R50 around the perimeter(allowing the ground heat/cooling of 50ish into the building. I would be very happy to have my shop at 55 year around!
 
That was similar to the conversation I had with Got-Torque the other day. His basement and garage are insulated with foam under the pad and fox blocks on the foundation. He did it because he used radiant tube heat in the floors, but he did bring up the same point that you also block the cool ground temp during the warm months.

There are a few different ways to insulated the pad edges. Some go as far as placing insulation out from the base off the wall also.

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Pictures from HERE This article is written for colder climates to prevent issues with frost, maybe not applicable?
 
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That looks good, however I am thinking to skip the foam on the inside of the garage, just do the outside.
 
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