Formula for 500 working hp?

J-Pipes

J-Pipes

Active member
Neighbor is finally going to build a new engine for his truck, and is asking for recommendations for the engine. It's an ecsb, 35" tires, 5spd, and I think 3.55 gears. Will be used for DD and towing, occasionally much heavier than he probably should! So far I've just given him general recommendations, like PDD afc live, and call infinite performance for turbo/injectors. I told him to join here, so maybe he'll join in. He said no more than 700hp for complete reliability, so I'm thinking a setup that makes about 500hp with fuel backed off a little, sort of a tow setting, could make up to about 700hp on full fuel. So far I think he's still shopping for new rotating assembly, current one sent something through the oil pan! So recommendations for a complete engine is what I'm after I guess.

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J-Pipes said:
Neighbor is finally going to build a new engine for his truck, and is asking for recommendations for the engine. It's an ecsb, 35" tires, 5spd, and I think 3.55 gears. Will be used for DD and towing, occasionally much heavier than he probably should! So far I've just given him general recommendations, like PDD afc live, and call infinite performance for turbo/injectors. I told him to join here, so maybe he'll join in. He said no more than 700hp for complete reliability, so I'm thinking a setup that makes about 500hp with fuel backed off a little, sort of a tow setting, could make up to about 700hp on full fuel. So far I think he's still shopping for new rotating assembly, current one sent something through the oil pan! So recommendations for a complete engine is what I'm after I guess.
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I kinda figured you knew stuff like this already.
 
I'm not near as smart as you guys! Not sure what's done to the pump, or how big the injectors are. Told him send the pump to Farrell if he's doing anything to it, but I have no idea for injectors. Truck currently has a 62mm turbo, I think. As long as it's still good, told him something around a 75mm with it should get him there. He wants a very reliable bottom end, does he need anything special for rods/pistons? Pretty sure the truck would peg the 1600° gauge when run wide open.

As far as knowing myself already, I just know who to ask, I can't afford to do any fun stuff myself, so I just read and learn what I can.

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turbo2387 said:
700hp heavy towing 12v is a tough build for total reliability.
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My though was the 700hp was full effort power, while the towing would be more around 500hp by dialing fuel back with the afc live.

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J-Pipes said:
My though was the 700hp was full effort power, while the towing would be more around 500hp by dialing fuel back with the afc live.

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Which wont work well. Afc live isnt a programmer. He kinda needs to pick a goal. Having your cake and eating it too is a rare thing.
 
turbo2387 said:
Which wont work well. Afc live isnt a programmer. He kinda needs to pick a goal. Having your cake and eating it too is a rare thing.
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Ok, that's why I'm asking. What he asked me was what he needed for a fun, but very reliable DD, but knowing him, I know it will eventually be overloaded, and he does frequently drive with a very heavy foot! I through out the 500hp number, he said that's probably work, then added the no more than 700hp as to not sacrifice reliability.

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The AFC Live can be used to dial it up and down. What I like to do is record fuel deliveries at varying boost levels when the pump is calibrated. Whoever you have do the pump should be able to do that for you. Then you know, for example, 10 psi to the pump you have 200 cc, 15 psi 250 cc, 20 psi 300 cc, etc. Fuel delivery I guess isn't all that important if you tune on the dyno or just by pyro and seat-of-pants, but I like to know for comparisons sake.
If you choose the AFC Live race unit it has a gauge and a port to apply air pressure for making adjustments. Figure out what pressure works for towing and what pressure is best for "Max Effort". Adjust accordingly. Not quite as easy as a DSP5 switch, but it works.
I just finished building a p-pump 24 valve that sounds similar to want your buddy wants to build. It had BD R700 twins on it when it came to me. It also had a set of Dynomite Custom injectors which flowed enough for 700-750 with the VP44. I built a 215 pump for it with 7mm valves and a 4k spring kit. Added AFC llive and max travel kit. This setup ran great and I wouldn't hesitate to tow with it at around 500-550 HP. And it should easily pull 700 HP.
 
Oh and that build was on a stock bottom end that had been running for several years at over 500 RWHP with the VP. But if I was building the bottom end I would go with coated Mahle or OEM pistons for longevity, main girdle with studs, and stock rods with high strength bolts. Nothing super fancy is needed for the horsepower range in my opinion.
 
I don’t see how he’s not going to have to have twins with out is being a smokey pig. Towing is the issue unless he wants to shift a 4K rpms.


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I think with a 200hp swing like mentioned, the biggest issue is going to be turbos.

Dialing back 200hp worth of fuel is going to make a poor driving truck with a larger turbo, and adding 200hp with a small turbo is going to cause havoc eventually as well.
 
AFC live is a cool thing but its a cool thing to dial in a particular setup. Expecting to have a mechanical truck that works really well at a 500hp and 700hp is a totally different animal. if you build a solid 700hp truck then cut its balls off so you can try to tow, it will be a pig. if you build a 500hp truck that tows really well you will struggle to fuel it to 700hp and in the process beat your turbos to death. as turbos that work best at 500hp are not the same turbos that work best at 700hp. same for the injectors
 
Ok, the 700hp was a theoretical, turn the fuel up number. Guess the 500+ tow beast is the primary goal, that he could bump the fuel for a little more to play. Compounds were my first recomendation, just not sure what sizes to say? I'm thinking pull his current turbo, a 62mm I think, and measure everything on it and see if it'd be a suitable to add a turbo too for the compound setup. Was thinking possibly something in the 72mm-76mm range.

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Staying on the cheap side, I had a 623hp 12v with the stock hx35 and a cheap 475/96/1.32 under it. Towed anything I wanted, never worried about egt, and ran good. I bought a used piping setup off here from source auto. I know that's not the ideal turbine size for what I was using it for, but worked well.
 
Nice, that's about what I'm looking for, just need to get his old turbo off, and then decide what would pair best with it.

But more for the beginig stages, the engine in the truck is currently locked up upon sending something through the oil pan. If he's starting with a bare block, what would be the best pick for complete rotating assembly? Does anyone offer such a package, or is it piece it together himself?

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J-Pipes said:
Nice, that's about what I'm looking for, just need to get his old turbo off, and then decide what would pair best with it.

But more for the beginig stages, the engine in the truck is currently locked up upon sending something through the oil pan. If he's starting with a bare block, what would be the best pick for complete rotating assembly? Does anyone offer such a package, or is it piece it together himself?

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I have a good set of stock rods I can sell you, just need new bearings. I have a 12v timing cover and case as well.
Hit up mark Nixon for a good crank or maybe a full package on some quality used ones.
 
I would recommend tearing it down to see what you have to work with.
You've said it was locked up. I'd want to know the why before getting into the how.
 
Snedge said:
I would recommend tearing it down to see what you have to work with.
You've said it was locked up. I'd want to know the why before getting into the how.
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He's not using the old engine, has a complete 24v donor engine in the shop at work he said. I told him as long as everything was still in good shape with it, the factory rotating assembly should be plenty adequate. But if he's pulling everything out anyway, have it balanced, and deck both the block and head to be sure. Probably going to be a slow process, he's pretty busy, and will be doing most of the work himself.

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