More Hp lower RPM 8.36cta

S

Str8jacket

New member
G'day, after a little advice on how to get the most HP as possible at 1700rpm max on a 8.3, has a PES6A inline fuel pump, currently rated at 234HP @ 2200 rpm. We are building a test bench for a hydraulic pump that we are refining some controls for, the pump needs to be at 1700rpm max, we can creep up to 1800rpm but that requires a lot more on the hyd side of things, pressurised hyd tank etc, possible chare pump which would then rob hp too.


We will need a max of 60 to 100 hrs of testing, rpms will be constant between max 1700 down to 1500rpm between load cycles, a fair bit of steady state rpms limited load. Any suggestions, we have the standard turbo a smaller t3 framed turbo as well as a k29 and a k31, we are not interested in its life span after testing or looks, It will be mounted in a shipping container so it can get pretty buck wild piping wise if needed.

Thanks Str8
 
It's relatively easy to get some more fuel out of the pump, but at 1700 RPM making big gains in horsepower won't be easy. Really that is running more in the top end of the torque range. If it was me I would pull the pump and send it to a good fuel shop. Have them set up the governor and torque capsule to work in that 1500-1700 RPM range, and see what kind of fuel you get out of it. I'm guessing 20-30% over spec is possible, but it depends on the specific pump build. I would start there, put it on the engine, and run it with a pyrometer under load and see if you have enough air flow. If not something can be done with the turbo. Do you know approximately how much horsepower you will need for your testing?
 
Thanks for the reply Yotadzl, I have mapped out the Hp requirements for the pumps and it isn't as high as I thought initially, that said it is still about 350hp.
I know what we really need is bulk torque but I said HP cause all hyd pump rating are in HP, makes a lot of calcs necessary to get the curve right.

Ideally we need to make as much torque as possible from 1600rpm to 1800rpm, I have decided to go and source a hyd tank off a excavator or large mining truck that we can pressurise for the inlet of the pump, this will allow us to run to approx. 1800rpm under load and maybe no load to 1850rpm.


Going off the specs on my K29, which was off a 9lt volvo rated at 430hp ish at 1900RPM it should be able to give us enough air down low, it has an 82mm turbine in a 12cm housing so it "should" work. the holset on it is set up for stationary pump speed of 2200rpm so I don't think it will push enough no matter what fuel we can get.


We have 2 engines with the same pump so I might send one away and play with the one on the engine here, I was under the assumption that the stationary governer on it would try to hold revs at what ever the throttle lever set too? can we give it more fuel and tune the afc ourselves? I have had nothing to do with these inline pumps, I will need to find a manual.
 
So you want 350hp at 1700RPM from an engine supposed to make about 200hp at 1700RPM??


Sounds like you need a different engine.

If it is an RSV governor, it will hold steady RPM and adjust the power for the load, within reason. It can't make any more power than the engine will allow.

Chris
 
Yeah we need a different engine, and may need to get one if we cant get enough out of the 8.3, the 8.3 is a full unit on a stand with radiator etc, plus we already have it. Other options are going to run into big dollars, we can get an N14 cheap, it had lost oil pressure and shut down on the watchdog system, it maybe oil pump regulator or it maybe rooted completely, we don't know. Any other options are a $15k plus gamble from wreckers on unknown engines that may or may not last 10mins on the bench? then we need to build stands, source radiators etc.

We are in the middle of no where Straya, think of a cost you guys in the states would pay for every item then times that by atleast 10. and then add GST
 
I doubt you are going to get any where near that much hp at 1700-1800 rpm with an 8.3. The 300 hp over the road version of that engine makes 300 at 2600-2800 rpm IIRC. Those pumps are pretty easy to tweak on, but getting the governor to hold load at the right rpm and delivery can be tricky to do on the engine, even if you know what you are doing.


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Yotadzl said:
I doubt you are going to get any where near that much hp at 1700-1800 rpm with an 8.3. The 300 hp over the road version of that engine makes 300 at 2600-2800 rpm IIRC. Those pumps are pretty easy to tweak on, but getting the governor to hold load at the right rpm and delivery can be tricky to do on the engine, even if you know what you are doing.


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The right type of governor will make that part easy. An AG tractor will hold RPM and power at any RPM if it can. Meaning, if it has enough power to maintain it's RPM, it will....but 200hp obviously maintain a 350hp load.

Chris
 
Signature600 said:
The right type of governor will make that part easy. An AG tractor will hold RPM and power at any RPM if it can. Meaning, if it has enough power to maintain it's RPM, it will....but 200hp obviously maintain a 350hp load.

Chris
Click to expand...

What I was getting at is just turning the screws on an RSV governor probably won't give him the result he wants. In my experience with custom ag applications you might get it close, but to truly set it up right to hold the correct fuel delivery at a given rpm and set torque control to perform properly, as well as governor break away and regulation, the pump needs to be on a test stand. Just my opinion from my experience.
 
Thanks for the pointers guys, i am going to see if we can get areduction drive to be able to bump the the revs up at the motor to get us closer to our hp target. Whats a good safe Rpm range to be able to get into the 300hp or above?
 
Str8jacket said:
Thanks for the pointers guys, i am going to see if we can get areduction drive to be able to bump the the revs up at the motor to get us closer to our hp target. Whats a good safe Rpm range to be able to get into the 300hp or above?
Click to expand...



I would assume that the 2600-3000 rpm range would be a safe rpm to make that kind of horsepower. Plus there’s known specifications to base your setup on.


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Do you have room to set it up with a transmission to get the engine rpm's up but have the rpm's you are looking for? How long will you hold this rpm and load on the motor? A reserve of cold water for a water to air intercooler will go a long way toward making this power depending on time needed.
 
We have room for a transmission. Its finding one at the correct ratio and reasonable price. I can build a belt drive reduction fairly economically that will be rated at 550hp at our rpms. I will have to look at gearbox options. Proper pump drive boxes are more than $15k second hand and i cant find a ratio that would suit which means new.
We will have it under load for a good few hours at a time. I have a massive air to air intercooler off a dump truck that is good for 500hp so we are going to use that. Our ambiemt temps are 38*C here for the next few months
 
If you are under full load for that amount of time you really need a bigger motor. An old 855 cummins or 3406 cat would be the easiest to get that kind of power out of and simple to hook up. I just don't see a 8.3 doing it unless it was in a marine application with endless cold water. Maybe I'm wrong. 855 around here can be had cheaper than what it would cost to rig up a reduction drive on 8.3. Complete running rough trucks around 2500.
 
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