68RFE vs. AS69RC (AISIN)

Good info Smoken Gun. You can delete a AISIN equipped truck, but no trans tuning like you said. I'm not sure I would say the AISIN is the best out of the 3 though, that Ford 6R140 is a beast.
Thank you. Yeah I know next to nothing about the 6R140 transmissions, but I remember the 5R110s are generally thought of as pretty damn solid in stock form. I think it was an Insta post where Randy said he thought the AS69RC was the strongest transmission stock for stock based on the size of the internals. Not sure how much he's worked with the 6R140s though, if at all.

The AS66RC is behind the gasser engine I believe. It would have a lower rating that the 68/69. Not sure if the 68 made it to the pickup trucks, it was around that time when they were making the switch to the 69 and they pickup truck availability. I would want to know for sure I had a 69, since you never know what car manufacturers do. Remember the '03 trucks that have 47REs and 48REs with some 47 parts and what not? I could see Ram doing the same thing again.
Yeah I hear ya. Sometimes it seems like Chrysler/Dodge/FCA and the people that assemble these trucks just wing it half the time and slap whatever they have lying around together.
 
Thank you. Yes, there are certainly a lot of trade-offs with the new diesels compared to the older ones. Going from a well set-up 12-valve truck to a stock new truck certainly takes some getting use to. I definitely miss the simplicity of a 12-valve, if you don't like what it's doing just whack it with a mallet:hehe:. No electrical nannies on a 12-valve, just your right foot. LOTS of electrical nannies on new trucks that dictate what is acceptable driver input wise, DEF, regen, more things to potentially go wrong in general. That said, new trucks are SO much nicer to daily drive than the older diesels. Build quality between a 2nd gen and 4th gen is night and day. 2nd gen cabs are built like beer cans. 4th gens actually feel sturdy. My 4th gen starts in 15* F weather after sitting for days outside, without being plugged in, after the grid heater cycles just as easy as it starts in 80* weather, instantly. No 12-valve grumpiness. 4th gen automatically high idles bellow a certain temp (probably freezing), I flip on the exhaust brake, and get heat fairly quick for a diesel. The truck remembers the preferences of the key fob being used as well- automatically turning on the heated seats, heat steering wheel, and changes the seat/mirror positions (if you set the key fob up for that) based on my habits/settings. It actually steers straight when the wheel is pointed straight, which is nice. Still rides like a 1-ton with leaf springs in back though. My impressions is, again, if you go from a nicely built older truck that's set-up just how you want it power/performance wise to a new truck you'll probably be disappointed by how it drives when you're feeling frisky. If you drive a ~8,000lb truck like a normal person (people on here don't applyLOL) you won't have many complaints, if any.

Going from your preferred older truck to a new truck that's deleted and tuned would probably be the least disappointing route, but then you won't have the powertrain warranty as your parachute should the universe decide it wants to bully you in particular for no apparent reason on any given day... Also, no tuning yet for the Aisin if you do want to delete and tune is kind of a bummer. I don't mean to keep bringing up Randy Reyes, but he's the only one I personally know of (besides RevMax) that is working on/modifying Aisins AND is willing to talk about it a little bit. From what I've pieced together from his responses to peoples questions on Instagram/Facebook is that, according to him, the AS69RC is the strongest stock for stock transmission the big three have ever put in a pick-up (a true medium duty commercial transmission) and will hold a sh!t ton of power in stock form (he beat his to death with 700hp+ for almost a year iirc before it gave up the ghost), but they will shift funky as hell while doing it. Flare shifting and other stuff. According to his posts he got rid of the flare shifting with purely mechanical changes though. So if you want to jump through all those hoops on a brand new truck...

He also said, iirc, Aisins have adaptive learning software and will change how/when the transmission shifts after ~weeks/months of learning your driving habits to suit your driving style/requirements.

Yep, ESC is electronic stability control. It also encompasses all-speed traction control. There is also a couple "smart" braking features and hill decent/start control. If you want to spin your tires, do burnouts, drive off-road, drag race, pull, etc. you have those electrically nannies to do battle with. I haven't tested them much myself, but from what I understand you can't disable traction control in 2wd at all. You can disable traction control in 4wd with the ESC button, but it will automatically come back on if you exceed ~35-40 mph. Traction control in 2wd isn't super responsive either- if it's raining or slick out you can step the ass out with all that torque pretty quick and it won't catch it until your getting sideways. From what I understand if you want to permanently disable ESC you have to either tune the truck and ask your tuner to do that (bye bye warranty), pull the ABS fuse (which has adverse affects), or go to your dealer and ask them to and see if they play ball.





I thought the AS66RC and AS68RC only came in chasis cab trucks? Some actually snuck into regular pickups?

http://www.dieselhub.com/trans/aisin-as68rc.html

https://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/aisin.html

Well put and thorough post, thanks Smoken Gun. :clap: Now I just have to decide if I'm willing to become... domesticated, lol.
 
Well put and thorough post, thanks Smoken Gun. :clap: Now I just have to decide if I'm willing to become... domesticated, lol.
I'm starting to think Big Swole has it all figured out. Just have a nice new(ish) truck and leave it mostly stock. Then get a 911 Turbo for fun timesLOL. Seems like a perfect combo. Porsches for everyone!
 
I'm starting to think Big Swole has it all figured out. Just have a nice new(ish) truck and leave it mostly stock. Then get a 911 Turbo for fun timesLOL. Seems like a perfect combo. Porsches for everyone!

I'm driving a bone stock 2018 Duramax, towing whatever I want with ease, and being comfy....I've given up on upgrades that don't make life any easier 98% of the time because these trucks don't NEED more power anymore. Now they need better brakes.

When a 12v was new and had 180hp it NEEDED more power...at 447hp at the flywheel, they really don't anymore.


The diesel bro's in this world have killed going fast for me...it just lost it's appeal. Now all my toys have triggers and go bang.

Chris
 
I'm driving a bone stock 2018 Duramax, towing whatever I want with ease, and being comfy....I've given up on upgrades that don't make life any easier 98% of the time because these trucks don't NEED more power anymore. Now they need better brakes.

When a 12v was new and had 180hp it NEEDED more power...at 447hp at the flywheel, they really don't anymore.


The diesel bro's in this world have killed going fast for me...it just lost it's appeal. Now all my toys have triggers and go bang.

Chris

Yea, I have a confession to make. I test drove a '19 F250 6.7 Powerstroke last night and loved it. I've had 7 F250s over the years, it might be time for #8.
 
Yeah I hear ya. Sometimes it seems like Chrysler/Dodge/FCA and the people that assemble these trucks just wing it half the time and slap whatever they have lying around together.


I spent almost 10 years in the transmission assembly plant. I got to know the 47RE/48RE stuff pretty well. In learning about them, most of them tried to use the right parts, but when discussing the micky mouse washer and some selectable shims, They had a very limited selection(IE not all of the available ones were on the line), so they just made do with what they had. LOL
 
It's been a few months, any updates? I'm cruising the net for truck deals again, I've gone full circle and am right back where I started :doh:

I'm starting to think Big Swole has it all figured out. Just have a nice new(ish) truck and leave it mostly stock. Then get a 911 Turbo for fun timesLOL. Seems like a perfect combo. Porsches for everyone!

Ha, I've got an angry gas V8 collecting dust for that sorta fix, but these days I enjoy a strong towing truck infront of a gooseneck just as much or more. The G56 in the 12v made the truck slow down, but man I love towing with it. No more pulling my hair out... OD on, OD off, lock up on, lock up off like with the 47RE.

I'm driving a bone stock 2018 Duramax, towing whatever I want with ease, and being comfy....I've given up on upgrades that don't make life any easier 98% of the time because these trucks don't NEED more power anymore. Now they need better brakes.

When a 12v was new and had 180hp it NEEDED more power...at 447hp at the flywheel, they really don't anymore.


The diesel bro's in this world have killed going fast for me...it just lost it's appeal. Now all my toys have triggers and go bang.

Chris

You're right Chris, it's painful watching the brodozers romp around with flatbills and a dozen h8ter stickers.

The more ear and nose hair I get, the more I just want to get in, start it up, and drive. I never thought I'd be there, hair or stockish trucks.
 
I'm waiting for the 5th gen/2019s to come out if they ever will. I'm definitely going with a Aisin if I get one. If I don't like them, I'm going for a PowerStroke.
 
It's been a few months, any updates? I'm cruising the net for truck deals again, I've gone full circle and am right back where I started :doh:
In any specific regard?

Personally, my '18 has been trouble free so far (no repairs/service needed), but I haven't been driving it much during the hellish winter we had in Michigan. Although, I am already dead sick of filling the DEF tank with those clumsy 2.5 gallon containers when it's below freezing...:doh:. The truck goes through DEF quicker during winter too and there aren't any fuel stations with DEF pumps around me (or in Michigan) that I know of. I am impressed by how easily the 6.7L started, after sitting outside unplugged every night, during the cold spell where it was -30* F with wind chill- the only real difference in how it starts in cold vs. warm weather is how long the grid heater cycles. I've never had to press the start button more than once to get it running, my old 12-valve would been quite unhappy in that weather and my 6.0L would've lost its freakin mindLOL. If I let the truck sit for more than ~5 days in below freezing temperatures it will go into batter saver mode when it's started again and various nonessential systems (radio/navigation system, heated seats, heated steering wheel, heated mirrors, etc.) may or may not work until the batteries are recharged enough and the truck is restarted. If the truck sits for only a couple days in cold weather it will usual show battery saver mode is on, but everything will work as normal...*shrugs shoulders*. If it is driven at least every other day it's fine, but I tried to keep the salt off it as much as possible (damn Midwest...).

As far as Aisin tuning updates go there aren't any that I'm aware of. People still react to questions about it like you just asked how to make a dirty bomb, don't respond, or say they're currently working on making the 68RFE into not a total pile and will work on Aisins next (maybe...). I still haven't gotten a straight answer to the question of approximately how much power you can add to the 6.7L before the AS69RC will start to act up and shift funky yet from a reliably source. Some rando on Instagram said up to ~100hp is fine, but he didn't even have an Aisin equipped truck... I'd be really nice to know if an EFI Live/MM3 tune that added 50p, 100hp, or even the Stealth Performance Module on the high setting would make the Aisin shift funky or not.

I'm actually toying with the idea of trading my '18 for a new Ford Raptor or sports car of some kind or just keeping it. I change my mind dailyLOL.

You're right Chris, it's painful watching the brodozers romp around with flatbills and a dozen h8ter stickers.

The more ear and nose hair I get, the more I just want to get in, start it up, and drive. I never thought I'd be there, hair or stockish trucks.
Yep, right there with you guys. I use to want more and more power, but now I just want a truck that is reliable, drives well, and looks good more than anything. I've seen one too many mouth breathers in rusted out 24-valve 2nd gens with an 8" exhaust tip on 24s with rubber band tires (or equivalent Ford/GM) smoke out the entire highway trying to get their Pringles tuned sh!t box to accelerate ~5mph to pass someone so they can go 90mph and everyone behind them hit their brakes so they don't drive into a giant jet black cloud of smoke... I just don't want to be associated with that. There's a time and place for that stuff and busy public roads in heavy traffic isn't it.

If I modify my truck it will be aesthetic stuff, suspension upgrades, and tunes for maybe 50-100hp+ (mostly I just want that dead pedal feel in 1st and 2nd gear gone).

And I agree, Chris, these trucks do need better breaks from the factory now.

I'm waiting for the 5th gen/2019s to come out if they ever will. I'm definitely going with a Aisin if I get one. If I don't like them, I'm going for a PowerStroke.
I'm starting to wonder if the Aisin is the right choice more... If you're going to keep your truck relatively stock it most likely is, but if your intent is to eventually modify it for significantly more power it might not be as there might not ever be aftermarket tuning for them. The 68RFE might be crap in stock form, but they can be built fairly strong (it seems) and are can be tuned. The new 5th gen's Aisins adaptive learning software has twice the learning power as the previous AS69RC according to the press releases so far, which sounds like they just got even more complicated and hard to tune than before to me. I'd say a manual truck is an option, but Ram killed that...

I'd test drive all three brands as much as you need to and see what you like, they're all pretty damn nice these days. A couple guys near me have new Platinum trim Alumiduties and one guy has a new High County trim Silverado in black that is gorgeous. I'd also consider if jumping through the hoops of new diesels is really worth it to you and if you want the dilemma of whether or not to tuned/delete the truck to make it more reliable/fun to drive and likely kill your powertrain warranty or to drive it with the emissions crap intact for five years/100K miles and keep your warranty weighing on you constantly. Lavon said in one of Firepunk's YouTube videos trucks with emissions equipment on have ~16th" of soot built up in their intake tracts after 100K miles, at ~3:10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2OIplNh7Yc?t=190

The fact that the diesel aftermarket is currently having its throat slit is also something to consider I'd say.
 
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In any specific regard?

Just in general truck search struggles. This is my cycle: I really need a crew cab, let's get online and see what's for sale. Look, a 2012 3500 for $23,000...that's doable...wait it has a 68RFE...hmm, ok, add $7000 for deletes and a good trans build. Jesus, now I'm at $30,000 and it still might shift like Helen Keller's race car. Ok, I'll just stay mostly stock and get an Aisin truck and a nicer updated interior. Ok, there is one for $31,000, at least it'll last me for a long time. Dead pedal and possible retardo shift problems with deletes? Damn you Dodge! Alright, where are the 6.7l Fords, those have a solid transmission and I like the interiors. $38,000??!! Still needs deletes, has CP4 failure with high miles, and the engine bay its tighter than a tick's ass. F-it, I'm over this, where are the blown up 6.4 trucks on facebook? I'm stabbing a compound turbo 12v and Allison in one of these turds and telling the EPA to eat a bag of dix! Who am I kidding, I don't have time for that, let's just hop online and see what's for sale.:hehe:

I have seen a few 4th gen trucks getting Allison swaps. At least EFI live can adjust everything on them and they are reasonable to build.


Personally, my '18 has been trouble free so far ....(damn Midwest...).

That's good to hear. I don't drive my truck as a job or anything, but I do demand a lot when it's called upon.

As far as Aisin tuning updates go there aren't any that I'm aware of. People still react to questions about it like you just asked how to make a dirty bomb, don't respond, or say they're currently working on making the 68RFE into not a total pile and will work on Aisins next (maybe...). I still haven't gotten a straight answer to the question of approximately how much power you can add to the 6.7L before the AS69RC will start to act up and shift funky yet from a reliably source. Some rando on Instagram said up to ~100hp is fine, but he didn't even have an Aisin equipped truck... I'd be really nice to know if an EFI Live/MM3 tune that added 50p, 100hp, or even the Stealth Performance Module on the high setting would make the Aisin shift funky or not.

If I got a solid response from a reputable source that I could delete or delete and add 50hp without issues, I'd buy a Aisin truck tomorrow. I get the same run around. No one wants to discuss the Aisins, they want to sell you $7000 worth of 68RFE fixes.

I'm actually toying with the idea of trading my '18 for a new Ford Raptor or sports car of some kind or just keeping it. I change my mind dailyLOL.

I drove an early Raptor with a 6.2L and it was a blast offroad. However, it's not an option for me with trailer/farm duty.

Yep, right there with you guys. I use to want more and more power, but now I just want a truck that is reliable, drives well, and looks good more than anything. I've seen one too many mouth breathers in rusted out 24-valve 2nd gens with an 8" exhaust tip on 24s with rubber band tires (or equivalent Ford/GM) smoke out the entire highway trying to get their Pringles tuned sh!t box to accelerate ~5mph to pass someone so they can go 90mph and everyone behind them hit their brakes so they don't drive into a giant jet black cloud of smoke... I just don't want to be associated with that. There's a time and place for that stuff and busy public roads in heavy traffic isn't it.

95% of the ricers I see on the road are diesels. I dislike being in the same category but don't want to go back to gas for towing trailers.

If I modify my truck it will be aesthetic stuff, suspension upgrades, and tunes for maybe 50-100hp+ (mostly I just want that dead pedal feel in 1st and 2nd gear gone).

That's all I need, deletes and maybe 50hp or a tow tune. I'd like to drive two back to back note the differences, maybe this weekend...

And I agree, Chris, these trucks do need better breaks from the factory now.

I'm starting to wonder if the Aisin is the right choice more... If you're going to keep your truck relatively stock it most likely is, but if your intent is to eventually modify it for significantly more power it might not be as there might not ever be aftermarket tuning for them. The 68RFE might be crap in stock form, but they can be built fairly strong (it seems) and are can be tuned. The new 5th gen's Aisins adaptive learning software has twice the learning power as the previous AS69RC according to the press releases so far, which sounds like they just got even more complicated and hard to tune than before to me. I'd say a manual truck is an option, but Ram killed that...

Maybe it's age but I look at the cost benefit of spending $7000-$10,000 for reliable 100-150hp gains in a newer truck and it just doesn't appeal to me like it used to. I have other priorities these days. I have a manual truck and it's perfect for towing but not perfect for wife/family if they need to use/borrow it or long trips I put 24 hours/1500 miles of driving on my 12v/G56 truck for a family trip recently and it was mechanically awesome but comfort wise not so awesome. The thought of a fresh truck with a well shifting auto passed through my head several times.

I'd test drive all three brands as much as you need to and see what you like, they're all pretty damn nice these days. A couple guys near me have new Platinum trim Alumiduties and one guy has a new High County trim Silverado in black that is gorgeous. I'd also consider if jumping through the hoops of new diesels is really worth it to you and if you want the dilemma of whether or not to tuned/delete the truck to make it more reliable/fun to drive and likely kill your powertrain warranty or to drive it with the emissions crap intact for five years/100K miles and keep your warranty weighing on you constantly. Lavon said in one of Firepunk's YouTube videos trucks with emissions equipment on have ~16th" of soot built up in their intake tracts after 100K miles, at ~3:10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2OIplNh7Yc?t=190

The fact that the diesel aftermarket is currently having its throat slit is also something to consider I'd say.

A new truck isn't in the cards for me, likely a $30,000 and under used truck with 100-225,000 miles is where I am stuck unless I want a base model.

I guess I'm just stuck in a holding pattern waiting for info to push me in one direction or another. I hate to call around to places and ask them what to buy without direct intentions of buying something from them. I wanted to call Randy Reyes and just pick his brain on the topic. I called Firepunk and they said they do in house builds on 68RFE's...only $7100ish, nothing offered for Aisins. I think my 12v truck is maybe worth $7100 on a good day, lol.
 
I threw in the towel and pulled the trigger on a 2013 3500 SRW with an Aisin. I'll report back with my thoughts and results.

I think I am going to do a transmission service on it right out of the gate so I know it's got fresh filters and fluid. I'll likely post a little "build" thread for details on my progress.
 
Congrates sir! How many miles on it? I'll keep an eye out for your thread. Hope you enjoy the new truck!

If you haven't already you might want to check to see if your specific truck has any recall issues that haven't been addressed yet, I just had a recall issue on my '18 for a potential incorrectly assembled steering component that could have caused sudden and complete lose of steering:doh:.

Also, a little Aisin update- Dallas at Red Horse Motorsports is giving Aisin builds a shot now too. Always good to have more guys tinkering with these things.
 
Thanks! 18x,xxx miles, which is about the only way I could get into one in my price range. I am hoping that it sees 500,000 without too many issues like I see alot of hotshot trucks run.

I did see one recall on the carfax. I guess a drag link, which the local dealer says there is no fix for pre 2018 trucks at this time. I was told I can contact Mopar and get on the recall list one way or another, which I plan to do.

I'll look into them a little, I am hoping for trouble free life out of the Aisin which is why I got one. I can say having never driven a AS69RC truck until this one that it's quite similar to a Allison 1000. Time will tell.

I have read, not necessarily meaning much, that people have run decent sized tunes on Aisin trucks but you have to give it reasonable time to recognize the new power curves. I guess the person who does the tuning has a large part in how they react as well. I have not seen many, if any, publicly post about tuning motors infront of Aisins. I am not looking to push the envelope to far, but I do plan on running some tunes and rely how it responds.
 
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That's what my recall was for essentially.

This was the description I got:

"FCA Recall #
V06
NHTSA Recall #
19V-021
Safety Defect/Non Compliance Description and Safety Risk

Some vehicles may have been built with an outboard steering linkage jam nut that could loosen allowing one end of the drag link to separate from the adjuster sleeve. A drag link separation can result in a loss of directional steering control, which can cause a vehicle crash without prior warning.

Repair Description

Inspect the torque values. If the torque values meet requirement, the nuts will be welded to the adjuster sleeve. If the torque values do not meet requirement, the drag link assembly will be replaced."

That's what I've heard about tuning Aisin trucks as well, but also heard if you run decent power through them you won't be able to get rid of the flare shift without hard part changes in the transmission itself. That's the problem really, lack of reliable public information on the subject.

Interested to hear how your truck does with some tuning/how you like how it drives with them:Cheer:.
 
If the Aisin operates anywhere near how the Allison does, the hard shifts or shift flare is from the tuning. (Read that as crap tuning). There's no reason a slight increase in power should make a trans shift weird once it has learned a new power curve. Obviously once you exceed the holding power limits of the trans it will flare shifts, but I'd venture to say it's how these guys are writing the ECM tunes causing shift problems.
 
Lavon recently got a '19 with the Aisin, so hopefully they can work their magic on them. I think I remember someone saying Firepunk is working on emissions-on tuning, whether that entails trying to figure something out for the AS69RC transmissions or not I don't know.

Other than that- not that I've heard or anyone is willing to talk about publicly...
 
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When I was trying to decide on which trans to use in my new tow rig build, I talked to Randy Reyes about them. He really likes the Aisin, that is the trans he uses in his 4th gen and he beats the hell out of it all the time. I feel like the Aisin could be the next level for a Dodge transmission if they would just get the tuning down.

Just the physical size of the transmission and everything in it has some serious potential to be a great towing/daily transmission for the Dodges. They are phuckin huge! 500lbs dry weight, stock shaft size comparable to fat shafts in a 48re, huge drums and planetaries, stock triple disk converter, ect.
 
124K+ beating the hell out of my 68 towing 25-30,000 gross regularly. Now you guys are really making me want to buy an Aisin equipped truck.
 
When I was trying to decide on which trans to use in my new tow rig build, I talked to Randy Reyes about them. He really likes the Aisin, that is the trans he uses in his 4th gen and he beats the hell out of it all the time. I feel like the Aisin could be the next level for a Dodge transmission if they would just get the tuning down.

Just the physical size of the transmission and everything in it has some serious potential to be a great towing/daily transmission for the Dodges. They are phuckin huge! 500lbs dry weight, stock shaft size comparable to fat shafts in a 48re, huge drums and planetaries, stock triple disk converter, ect.


The Aisin in my Nissan behind the 5.0 Cummin makes the 48 and 68 look like midgets. The damn thing is huge! It's a 6 speed also and struggles with the same tune issues.

I prefer the feel the feel of my built 68 when banging through, but who knows what'll happen when the Aisin is done right.

Stock for stock.... Aisin gets my vote.
 
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