twin turbos on a manual truck

This website was intended to offer knowledge of performance applictions and the like, it is well aware that there is a new influx of a "type" of members here, this is unavoidable. Admins/Mods here as well as other sites are well aware of the "type" of people that post, even if they know nothing about what is being discussed. If they are subsequent to question, their "internet friends" jump in to save the day. I, myself would resolve this issue in a very efficient manner, yet this is not politically correct, so "they" stay. Do realize that the fashion in which you convey yourself in words shows your character, and many want help, not an opinion from someone whom offers it at every chance they get.

Spreading factual information is a losing battle, for every correct statement you will receive many more incorrect opinions. This is the flaw of the general public and internet forums. I have given much information over the course of the last several years, helping others for the only benefit of doing so. If you wish to drag my character into question, be aware of the consequences. What I choose to do now rests soley on my shoulders, and be certain that the "type" of people I would like to eradicate from a position of voice, are not of my concern.

There are lots of useful info in this thread it's just a matter of weeding out the crap. There is info that comes from people that read and type all day and some learn this way and call in gospel; not always the facts though. The only real way to learn these things is to get out there and do it for your selves. It's more rewarding also, this is the "best" diesel site out there by far; the best and fastest guys that read and post on forums do so here. I learned a lot from this very site when I got into this sport in 1999, I read for years before ever making a single post; you can learn a lot from other people's experiences and on thier dime but dont abuse it, the best learning is always first hand. Ryan

Wait let me get this straight? You're going to ban Tyler and "his friends" because he said he didn't feel, in his opinion, that your injectors were worth the added cost to him, which led you to harassing him at any given chance, and he talked crap back to you?

Am I missing anything?

Also...I'm glad that you happen to know everything and the only proper way to go about it. Wow this sure would be a boring world if everyone did everything exactly the same. You're a smart guy and there is no doubt you have earned it BUT you need to learn that even then best are criticized, it's how they deal with it that shows their true character. Lighten up bud and enjoy laughing at someone when their plans don't work out after they choose not to follow your advice. After all, that's all it is.....advice.

If it were my choice, I would eliminate people that use this site as their personal networking outlet. Like Ryan mentioned, experience is a bit different than an "opinion".

As per your edit; I do not take lightly derogatory comments from someone with ZERO experience in what I do everyday. I do not follow what is common, that should very evident, and I would push others to do the same.

No networking? Well we should just Do away with the pit chat area then. I'm glad you feel we should all go to events and never talk to one another....just run what we brung and go home???

ok.... So Charles can let someone know about which turbos work well on a 12 valve truck. Even though he doesn't own one. And I can't, even though I've had 9 different turbos (including twins) on my 12 valve? That is what I would consider "Personal experience". Or is this incorrect?

I know I can't throw out numbers like Charles can.. But I sure as hell know what my truck ran like.

That is the point, there are areas of this forum set aside for "opinions", but not in a thread where someone is looking for factual information. But as I said earlier, it takes all types, no matter how anyone feels about it.

Jeff, I believe Charles was describing how different applications would be more suited toward a combination not so narrowly grouped. Many took offense to what he said, he pushed a few people's buttons, and this is how it turned out.

So my "opinion" that knowledge of what works well on a 7.3 doesn't necessarially transfer to a 5.9 due to displacement and static timing should be kept to myself? I don't have a botany degree, maybe I should ask an expert for help when the wife asks for an orange. I'm so uneducated I may bring her a grapefruit!

I have never claimed any great knowledge or experience, but I've worked on my truck, I've worked on others, and I have learned a few things. I'm happy to share what little I do know, and learn from those that know more.

But in my experience the banter between guys of differing levels of experience makes stuff get debated from all angles, and helps things get brought to light. And it seems to make people more inclined to chime in and share what they know. It's trying to limit those that are allowed a voice to those that have a certain ammount of knowledge and experience that also limits the flow of knowledge. We all have something to offer, some obviously have more than others, but that certianly doesn't make them the final say, or the only ones to deserve a voice.

I commonly see technical information misinterpreted and regurgitated across several websites, this is frustrating to say the least, to see the efforts of few squandered by many. Is this done to gain an internet "persona" of knowledge, I may never know. So, again, I will leave you to your regularly scheduled program.

"All I Want For Christmas" is for V-bulletin to come out with their new Douche-Nozzle Filter upgrade... Vb3.2DNF :banghead:

Smokem said:

Jeff, I believe Charles was describing how different applications would be more suited toward a combination not so narrowly grouped. Many took offense to what he said, he pushed a few people's buttons, and this is how it turned out.

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I don't mind anyone pushing buttons (I certainly do it). But I have definitely learned that things that look good on paper (or in numbers), aren't always the case in real life. So I would imagine that both have their positives and negatives.

I just want to say that my only goal was to offer some perspective as a guy that has run a set of compounds (large by some people's standards) with a manual trans. I happened to have done so on a 7.3, and if that makes my experience basically worthless in terms of a guy running a P7100 on a 5.9 then so be it. But I just wanted to suggest to err on the bigger side when it comes to compounds because in my experience they will light off so fast that it's damn hard to mess up on the sizing, except to choke the engine with a small set, or obviously to really oversize things. I never tried to say that anyone should use ____ charger for a 5.9, I only mentioned what I had run on the 7.3 in hopes that someone as experienced with a 5.9 could take that and make comparisons on their own.

I say all this because as it stands, I wish to hell I was running a larger setup than I am. This thing starts choking down and drive starts to exceed boost at anything much over 60 to 65lbs.

Now I did poke fun at Forrest, but it certainly wasn't with ill-intentions.

I haven't been on in a few days... wow, this one looks like bug guts on a window now!

Charles, you got under my skin because I felt like you were insulting my intelligence...

the guy asked about a small set of twins, and I said I didn't really like them for daily driving when I ran a similar setup to what he was considering on the same engine he has...

people threw a few things back and forth and then HE offered up his power goals, and I stand by everything I've said/recomended because I've run 12v trucks w/ twins and singles in his power levels.

also, I believe I made a comparison between the turbos you ran on your 7.3 and a 5.9... I looked at the maps of your compressors and then found borg warner maps for turbos that flowed at a ~1:1.24 ratio to your turbos and came up between a 56 and a 58mm top turbo and something smaller than a 475...

you might reconsider how you poke fun at people, because it sure reads a lot like insults

Charles said:

I just want to say that my only goal was to offer some perspective as a guy that has run a set of compounds (large by some people's standards) with a manual trans. I happened to have done so on a 7.3, and if that makes my experience basically worthless in terms of a guy running a P7100 on a 5.9 then so be it. But I just wanted to suggest to err on the bigger side when it comes to compounds because in my experience they will light off so fast that it's damn hard to mess up on the sizing, except to choke the engine with a small set, or obviously to really oversize things. I never tried to say that anyone should use ____ charger for a 5.9, I only mentioned what I had run on the 7.3 in hopes that someone as experienced with a 5.9 could take that and make comparisons on their own.

I say all this because as it stands, I wish to hell I was running a larger setup than I am. This thing starts choking down and drive starts to exceed boost at anything much over 60 to 65lbs.

Now I did poke fun at Forrest, but it certainly wasn't with ill-intentions.

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I don't know about 7.3's but on 5.9's, I wonder if it's possible to keep drive pressure at 1:1 with boost well into the 70 psi range. It seems like 60psi boost is the magic number where no matter the setup, drive pressure passes up boost pressure.

Charles, what are your thoughts?

Big Blue24 said:

I don't know about 7.3's but on 5.9's, I wonder if it's possible to keep drive pressure at 1:1 with boost well into the 70 psi range. It seems like 60psi boost is the magic number where no matter the setup, drive pressure passes up boost pressure.

Charles, what are your thoughts?

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It's absolutely possible, and pretty common to see boost/drive still positive at 70, 80, 90+psi boost.

My problem is the drop in charger I have for a second stage. I can't remember the turbine wheel diameter but it's too damn small. I would like to swap it out with a GT4294.

So to keep boost/drive still positive in the 70+ range you sacrifice a little spoolup and run larger turbine'd turbos?

Sounds feasible on a purpose built performance setup, but what about a fast spooling daily driver?

Big Blue24 said:

So to keep boost/drive still positive in the 70+ range you sacrifice a little spoolup and run larger turbine'd turbos?

Sounds feasible on a purpose built performance setup, but what about a fast spooling daily driver?

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At 70lbs of boost I'm running 75-80lbs of drive. At 80lbs of boost I'm at ~90-95 drive, which still isn't that bad. I don't think it takes as much change as you might be thinking to stay positive or at least 1:1 at 70ish lbs of boost. Not enough to make the truck sluggish. I think the biggest factor is tuning. Granted, with the 12v it sounds like your hands might be tied there.

Secondly, what kind of power are we talking if we're talking 70+lbs of boost? Might be out of the norm for the DD anyway.

I could DD my 96 12 valve with twins, I try to as often as possible. A lot of it has to do with tuning. My 96 used to be owned by a P-pump Master, Brad Ponci. He tuned the hell out of it. I can push over 70psi when I get it. Yet the truck has great street manners. Brad has a 160hp P-pump on his drag truck that runs at least 10.7 if not faster. Its all in the tuning.... just my 2c