propane use in a moderate to high hp truck
- Thread starter mikmaze
- Start date
Tormentor
Banned
If you're referring to the "catalytic reaction" idea, there is no such thing.
If such an action were so simple to accomplish we would be seeing many OEM vehicles equipped with propane tanks to help meet the CAFE limits.
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Tormentor
Banned
It has nearly the same benefits as HCCI but with significantly more cost which offsets any of its small efficiency benefits. Making it bunk science, like the 6-stroke engines that were supposed to "revolutionize" the world.
People barely tolerate required second fluids like Urea injection, and that only because it can last between services. Nobody will buy a car or truck that requires two separate fuels except enthusiasts who are willing to work for that extra minute benefit. OEMs like Oldsmobile and Saab have tried water injection as factory equipment, but abandoned it after a shot time because nobody would buy it or maintain them.
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ENafziger
New member
You're right in a sense; however, things are different today than they were a decade ago. The "low hanging fruit" has been plucked in terms of easy to achieve efficiency and emissions benefits. Things that were deemed too difficult/expensive/won't pass customer acceptance 10 yrs ago are being revisited.
One of the biggest problems with HCCI is transitioning in/out, and between points. Moreover, it's very difficult operate at a load much above 7 bar in HCCI. Some people are using direct injection of water to control combustion phasing and get around this, but it's got plenty of challenges.
RCCI offers much greater control than HCCI, and offers significant emissions benefit as well...so much so, that the increase in initial cost required for RCCI capability could largely be offset by the savings in emissions equipment. You're correct about the consumer acceptance...expecting an average american to be able to fill 2 tanks with different fluids is not a reasonable solution. However, there are ways around this as well, using only one fuel tank, and another smaller tank with long service intervals (like DEF/Urea) containing an additive.
That's interesting about the water injection in OEMs. Do you remember what years/models that Saab and Oldsmobile offered water injection? I assume it was intake fumigation?
Even water injection is being revisited though now, as methods of removing water from exhaust are being developed...thus eliminating the need for ever refilling a water tank.
--Eric
Tormentor
Banned
That is not possible. Urea lasts a very long time because only very small amounts are used due to NOx emissions already being extremely low from high EGR rates. Its not a fuel or additive, its basically a "scrubber" to polish emissions under the limit after the catalyst and DPF have done their jobs.
An additive to work with RCCI would need either to be extremely concentrated or consumed at a rate within a few fractions of the primary fuel (1:8 or 1:12 at best). To last between services would need a tank similar in capacity to the primary fuel tank. Compared to less than 5 gallons for Urea.
The Olds Jetfire and early Saab 99 and 900 models. Both of the late 60s/early 70's.
Link?
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ENafziger
New member
I'm very familiar with UREA injection. We prototyped these systems 10+ years ago before they hit the market. We're working on RCCI on a multicylinder engine right now. Mapping has been done with ULSD, Euro IV Cert, UTG 96, and several Soy Bio blends. This summer we'll finish up with ethanol blends as well. The calculations have been run, experiments have been in progress for a couple years now, multi-cylinder development has been under way for over a year, and a test vehicle will be running RCCI likely within the next 4 months. It will be possible with existing fuel pipeline structure and an additive.
Thanks!
This technology is not as market ready as this video makes it sound; however, we've demonstrated better than 50% reclamation efficiency thus far on a diesel genset.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNpTSUXng4g"]Borla Exhaust Water Extraction Technology Overview - YouTube[/ame]
--Eric
Tormentor
Banned
Not true. Propane is a very high octane fuel (110 compared to diesel's 20). It doesn't ignite until the diesel starts to burn.
Detonation is mainly an issue at high boost pressures, high concentrations and on IDI diesels (because of their high compression ratios and precombustion chambers). Thats why its used more as a "mileage extender" than a power adder, its much easier and safer to just inject more diesel instead.
maxspl153
knuckle buster
I use propane , my neighbor and good friend across the street developed the "Powershot 2000" propane injection system . everybody down the street and in the area (diesel AND gas) run his system . I myself have 4 stages of propane 2 HP and 2 MPG settings . highway mpg increases almost DOUBLE !! with HP valving turned on its 180HP at the wheels but milage goes down .. be careful though EGT's like to rise , and it advances timing so id set a 3CFM cap on it unless you want power 
maxspl153
knuckle buster
forgot to add I ramp mine in @ 7PSI of boost flowing 1CFM progressively increasing based on boost to a max of 3CFM @ 30PSI and above .. note that's just the "milage" setting . . if you really want a good breakdown on how it works and all give my neighbor a call . his name is Keith Long owner of Diesel Performance Products . and said above its 122 octane equivalent not 110 .. no pun intended .