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Dodge Competition and Performance General Dodge Competition and Performance Discussion |
07-19-2009, 09:56 PM
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#41
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Name: Black04Ram
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Posts: 205
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the 03-04 have 2 events and the 04 1/2 -07 have 3 i think
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07-19-2009, 10:13 PM
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#42
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Name: 2007 5.9
Title: West Coast Dyno Modifier
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Location: NorCal
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Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black04Ram
the 03-04 have 2 events and the 04 1/2 -07 have 3 i think
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Right, and the 07.5+ have 4 events.
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07-19-2009, 10:34 PM
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#43
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Name: bdp
Title: beans diesel performance
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Posts: 1,730
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I had a R38 so my timming wasnt adjustable on that end.
I have Flux 7.5's so there was plenty of fuel for cooling if it were going to do it. I did not have my water up and running yet.
I could see Marcos point on the rpms somewhat but a hot spot can not increase the timming unless the fuel is there to burn through the actual injection event.
I really wish the term running lean would just freakin go away already, these are not gas engines for cryin out loud. If running lean was the issue then every stock engine would melt down, it just does not make sense. It just has to do with the amount of heat introduced to the piston crown.
__________________
www.beansdieselperformance.com
The Smokin' Hot Hooker- 2002 F350-6.7 CRD Sponsored by South Bend Clutch, Woodruff Diesel, Floor It Diesel
bdp Drag Truck- 81 C10 5.9 bdp built- Sponsors-Arrow Engine Machine, BTS Transmissions, Snow Performance, NX, Carrilo Rods, Mahle Pistons
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07-19-2009, 10:48 PM
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#44
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Name: Begle1
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kihei, Maui
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Posts: 4,134
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There's still a difference between a lean burn, where the fuel all has enough air to burn nice and clean and more heat and power results, and a rich burn, where the fuel burns partially and results in less heat, less power, and smoke.
__________________
1990 D-250 Regular Cab: Automatic transmission, turkey air horn, wires.
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07-19-2009, 11:04 PM
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#45
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Name: Joesixpack
Title: Pull'n it.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Posts: 4,118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdp
I had a R38 so my timming wasnt adjustable on that end.
I have Flux 7.5's so there was plenty of fuel for cooling if it were going to do it. I did not have my water up and running yet.
I could see Marcos point on the rpms somewhat but a hot spot can not increase the timming unless the fuel is there to burn through the actual injection event.
I really wish the term running lean would just freakin go away already, these are not gas engines for cryin out loud. If running lean was the issue then every stock engine would melt down, it just does not make sense. It just has to do with the amount of heat introduced to the piston crown.
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Call it fuel challenged, I don't care what you want, its a hotter burn than when its over fueled period.
Pullers running sigma's are still in the lean condition under full fuel?? That excess is sinking a pile of heat.
__________________
Basically stock if I would have built it at the factory.....
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07-20-2009, 08:07 AM
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#46
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Name: Billyram
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: N.Augusta,SC
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Posts: 607
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I believe with the 12Vs injectors lower pressure/bigger holes may be wetting the piston and actually cooling them. The CRs high pressure/smaller holes may be burning like a blow torch. Add multible injection events/longer duration it's not hard to figure higher piston temps even though the exhaust manifold temps don't show it. With lots of drive pressure you may be getting higer in cylinder temps and showing less in the exhaust manifold. There seems to be a fine line when tuning CRs so be careful.
Billy
__________________
Billy
04.5 Blue Ram
Garmon built tranny
SunCoast ProLoc
II Dragonflows
Wicked's Dragonslayer
Smarty
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07-20-2009, 08:32 AM
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#47
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Name: outlaw99
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: london
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Posts: 4,209
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I wouldnt compare a stock trucks lean, to a modded trucks lean.. theres a huge diff. the biggest being air.. a stock truck is already setup to burn ediquete fuel from the factory where as we are increasing rp and timing and adding more air but cannot find a way to not burn all the fuel... tuff to say that, but its true...
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07-20-2009, 08:48 AM
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#48
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Name: outlaw99
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2008
Location: london
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Posts: 4,209
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heres my truck pulled apart last night.. got 1 and 4 head looks great....
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07-20-2009, 09:42 AM
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#49
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Name: bdp
Title: beans diesel performance
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Posts: 1,730
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Yes cr's will melt a piston because the burn is more effiecent creating more heat in the cylinder then what egts show this I will agree with. Just lose the f'in term lean. You want to burn the fuel thats in the cylinder, that is why we add more turbo. The problem is the way it is getting injected and the amount of time it takes to do so.
My truck smoked as much as a 12v 3.0 truck and melted the pistons, there was plenty of fuel there to do cooling if it was going to do it. It is infact even worse on a cr to have that much fuel because the flame is so hot in the cylinder adding more fuel just turns up the torch even more making them melt even faster.
Quote:
I wouldnt compare a stock trucks lean, to a modded trucks lean.. theres a huge diff. the biggest being air.. a stock truck is already setup to burn ediquete fuel from the factory where as we are increasing rp and timing and adding more air but cannot find a way to not burn all the fuel... tuff to say that, but its true...
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With that reasoning someone should be able to have a stock truck, add injs, programmer, stack a couple boxes and never worry about melting the pistons. Why worry there isnt enough air to run LEAN so it should never melt right? I think we should all run turbo's way too small so we dont melt pistons.....
__________________
www.beansdieselperformance.com
The Smokin' Hot Hooker- 2002 F350-6.7 CRD Sponsored by South Bend Clutch, Woodruff Diesel, Floor It Diesel
bdp Drag Truck- 81 C10 5.9 bdp built- Sponsors-Arrow Engine Machine, BTS Transmissions, Snow Performance, NX, Carrilo Rods, Mahle Pistons
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07-20-2009, 09:54 AM
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#50
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Name: chrleb1
Title: Charlie Brown
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Dale, Ca
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Posts: 620
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I know.... the lean thing is driving me up the wall. That is the whole principle of a diesel to make good clean power. The problem that we are dealing with here is piston temp. Plain and simple.
__________________
Erick Brown
2003 Dodge, Smarty, plus stuff. Makes big power.
Goerend's trans parts, Built by Reb, holding 1,138 rwhp.....
98 12 valve 2wd quad cab short bed .... it's slow
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07-20-2009, 10:07 AM
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#51
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Name: Extreme Engines
Title: Banned
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Posts: 90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdp
Yes cr's will melt a piston because the burn is more effiecent creating more heat in the cylinder then what egts show this I will agree with. Just lose the f'in term lean. You want to burn the fuel thats in the cylinder, that is why we add more turbo. The problem is the way it is getting injected and the amount of time it takes to do so.
My truck smoked as much as a 12v 3.0 truck and melted the pistons, there was plenty of fuel there to do cooling if it was going to do it. It is infact even worse on a cr to have that much fuel because the flame is so hot in the cylinder adding more fuel just turns up the torch even more making them melt even faster.
With that reasoning someone should be able to have a stock truck, add injs, programmer, stack a couple boxes and never worry about melting the pistons. Why worry there isnt enough air to run LEAN so it should never melt right? I think we should all run turbo's way too small so we dont melt pistons.....
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Diesels have more air than a gas engine anyday in stock trim and most modded applications, Yes a diesel can be lean, lean on air or lean on fuel, 02 sensor testing can reveal this more clearly.
I feel that the reason for melting diesel pistons is very clear, partially lack of real life adjustable tuning, diesel's get hot on there own, add more boost, rpm,timeing and 26000PSI of multiple metal slicing fuel shots to a allready hot piston, and well thats what started this thread.
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07-20-2009, 10:59 AM
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#52
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Name: outlaw99
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2008
Location: london
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Posts: 4,209
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Im not saying we should all run stock turbo's im going back to the fact that everyone is saying we are melting pistons do to being to lean?? this would be because of air or fuel nothing else could make a truck run lean we dont have programming to allow to make the truck run lean.... nothing is standalone yet that is around anyone on heres price range...lol def. not mine.. Im only stating that it does have to do directly with the piston design. judging by my pistons I would say this insane rail pressure is causing problems for the injectors which in turn causes the nozzle to crack and fuel spray rapidly and wildly....
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07-20-2009, 11:25 AM
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#53
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Name: jlibert
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
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Posts: 3,454
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pulling fuel out at full load (full throttle, full boost, full operating temp) can melt pistons on a diesel engine.
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07-20-2009, 11:35 AM
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#54
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Name: Joesixpack
Title: Pull'n it.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Posts: 4,118
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Cylinder temperature increases as you reach the stoichiometric condition as it produces the highest flame temperature, after that cylinder temp drops, and is used as a way to control NOX emssions, want me to dig up a SAE paper?
Water injection is your friend, more so if you need more than 11 seconds at a insane power level.
If anyone thinks they can tow with 1000hp simply because they have enough air and tuning....think again...your going to have a mountain of melted pistons.
__________________
Basically stock if I would have built it at the factory.....
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07-20-2009, 11:47 AM
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#55
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Name: RAWdiesel
Title: CR Mechanic
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cynthiana KY
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Posts: 964
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I started a new thread, lets see if we can make a pattern as to who has melted pistons.
__________________
Wesley Wade - RAWDIESEL
2007,2008,2009 2.6 Point Champ
SDX 08 Champ
F1 Diesel, Smarty Power, Floor It Diesel, PPE, ATS, ZEUS
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07-20-2009, 05:04 PM
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#56
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Name: UNBROKEN
Title: Ezekiel 25:17
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: TEXAS
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Posts: 17,158
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I'm seeing an early pattern of more 04.5-07 trucks melting down.
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I ain't got no damn diesel
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07-20-2009, 05:52 PM
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#57
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Name: joelc79
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rootstown, Ohio
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Posts: 3,075
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besides bdp who has burn't up a 03/04 motor?
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I got a diesel truck...
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07-20-2009, 08:15 PM
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#58
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Name: HIGH TECH RAM
Title: Haters!
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Posts: 2,857
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I've gone through this whole thread and just a thought here: What woulf happen, minus losing power If we ran stock RP and still ran Big inectors and a lot of fuel? Would it be more like a 12v deal with drowning the cylinder with fuel to keep them cool? or what if we had full fuel and 140% calc engine load at 4krpm? ust thinkin out loud...
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08 3500 LMM
Compounds,40's and some other stuff
Tuned by Blackout
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07-20-2009, 08:35 PM
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#59
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Name: jsf350
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NH
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Posts: 1,912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIGH TECH RAM
I've gone through this whole thread and just a thought here: What woulf happen, minus losing power If we ran stock RP and still ran Big inectors and a lot of fuel? Would it be more like a 12v deal with drowning the cylinder with fuel to keep them cool? or what if we had full fuel and 140% calc engine load at 4krpm? ust thinkin out loud...
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Was thinking about this as well today--
turning up the mp-8(rail pressure) and its just like turning up the cutting torch
I'd gladly be down 50hp if I didnt have to replace some pistons.
__________________
00 F350- 00 F550 dump-01 F350 dump-
06 Dodge 2500-MPI/Hamilton, DPC 2011 #3
06 Dodge 2500-Bd Twins 587/1150 work truck
03 drag truck.10.53@131
Hamilton Cams
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07-20-2009, 08:54 PM
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#60
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Name: RAWdiesel
Title: CR Mechanic
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cynthiana KY
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Posts: 964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIGH TECH RAM
I've gone through this whole thread and just a thought here: What woulf happen, minus losing power If we ran stock RP and still ran Big inectors and a lot of fuel? Would it be more like a 12v deal with drowning the cylinder with fuel to keep them cool? or what if we had full fuel and 140% calc engine load at 4krpm? ust thinkin out loud...
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That is another pattern trend that i am seeing, hopefully more will fill out the poll thread.
__________________
Wesley Wade - RAWDIESEL
2007,2008,2009 2.6 Point Champ
SDX 08 Champ
F1 Diesel, Smarty Power, Floor It Diesel, PPE, ATS, ZEUS
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