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Old 01-15-2022, 08:35 AM   #21
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It was probably ten years ago that someone told me cork valve cover gaskets would stop the leaks on my small block ford. I asked if they really still sold that shit haha cork anywhere on a radiator sounds like an absolute shit show to me.
Whatever you say. I'll be sure to post here when we have one come back to us with loose bolts or a leaking gasket...but I've watched him do it since 2009 and haven't had to warranty one yet. Before then he was at our other store, so don't know...


I'm not trying to convince you guys of anything. Faulkner already knows better than that anyway. I'm just sharing my experience. If I worked on equipment that we could buy every radiator we needed and drop it in, I wouldn't ever have to do it this way, but I don't have that luxury. I spend half my time sourcing parts that have been obsolete for 10 plus years.


Here's a radiator question for you all. If I took a radiator out of a Peterbilt with a 425hp Cummins engine, and put it in a tractor with the same 425hp Cummins engine, will it cool it?
Chris
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Last edited by Signature600; 01-15-2022 at 08:39 AM.
 
Old 01-15-2022, 10:16 AM   #22
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I’m not saying it doesn’t work. I’ve never touched a big truck either so I wouldn’t know. Just surprising to me how the radiators are designed and that they use cork gaskets. If it works it works.
 
Old 01-15-2022, 02:25 PM   #23
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Chris with this one model radiator I had options of 4-6 rows, straight or staggered, dimpled or straight tube and I know I’ve seen an AG option where the fins are straight and farther apart to make them easier to clean. All sold as complete radiators.

As far as cork I’m guessing this video a friend sent me a few months ago sums it up.

January 15, 2022 - YouTube
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Flipping your mirrors up when you don't tow? That serves no purpose other than to let me know that you are a douche, from a distance.
 
Old 01-15-2022, 04:10 PM   #24
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That IA seems to have a bit more humor than most I’ve dealt with.
 
Old 01-15-2022, 04:24 PM   #25
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It was probably ten years ago that someone told me cork valve cover gaskets would stop the leaks on my small block ford. I asked if they really still sold that shit haha cork anywhere on a radiator sounds like an absolute shit show to me.
I have a rocker cover that would never seal with the modern plastic/rubber gasket just because it had been deformed around the bolt holes, cork gasket fixed it, though these have a layer of metal in between the layers of cork.
 
Old 01-15-2022, 08:14 PM   #26
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That IA seems to have a bit more humor than most I’ve dealt with.

Correct, most drink the Kool-Aid that the way it’s always been done is the best way. No it’s just the way it was originally certified and thanks to government BS it costs millions to prove any other way is better.
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Old 01-17-2022, 01:15 AM   #27
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It was probably ten years ago that someone told me cork valve cover gaskets would stop the leaks on my small block ford. I asked if they really still sold that shit haha cork anywhere on a radiator sounds like an absolute shit show to me.
LMAO

Everything in the v8 racing world seems to be oring nowadays with a dovetail groove.
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:07 AM   #28
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Chris with this one model radiator I had options of 4-6 rows, straight or staggered, dimpled or straight tube and I know I’ve seen an AG option where the fins are straight and farther apart to make them easier to clean. All sold as complete radiators.


Good, I'll have to look them up, because most are just "here's a radiator"

Chris
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Old 06-13-2022, 09:47 PM   #29
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Ended up with a 5 row staggered rad. But it still seems to run warm? I'm going to Texas this week, so that will be a good test.

Head, water pump, rad, thermostats are new. No bubbles from the bottle test. There's 2 sensors reading coolant temp so I doubt they're both wrong at the exact same time by the same amount.

It will hit 210f at 65 mph pulling a hill, fan will come on and the coolant temp won't drop until power is reduced. Say 75f ambient. I'm only pushing about 28 GPH worth of fuel, that's not a lot of power.

I put in some water wetter, drilled out the fitting off the top of the thermostat that goes to the upper coolant tank, and I fixed a fuel system issue that was sucking air. See what that does.
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Old 06-14-2022, 06:30 PM   #30
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Ended up with a 5 row staggered rad. But it still seems to run warm? I'm going to Texas this week, so that will be a good test.

Head, water pump, rad, thermostats are new. No bubbles from the bottle test. There's 2 sensors reading coolant temp so I doubt they're both wrong at the exact same time by the same amount.

It will hit 210f at 65 mph pulling a hill, fan will come on and the coolant temp won't drop until power is reduced. Say 75f ambient. I'm only pushing about 28 GPH worth of fuel, that's not a lot of power.

I put in some water wetter, drilled out the fitting off the top of the thermostat that goes to the upper coolant tank, and I fixed a fuel system issue that was sucking air. See what that does.

210 is not hot, If it’s hanging there on a hard pull it’s fine. Most newer engines don’t even turn the fan on until 215 and first alarm at like 225 and second at 235. What thermostats you running? Asking because some guys try to run cooler ones like 180’s vs 195’s and it does the exact opposite of what they are after.

You do have a functional fan shroud? The T8 has more than enough surface area to cool 800+hp.
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Old 06-17-2022, 06:11 PM   #31
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Factory 190 currently. Apparently they do not fully open until 205f. The fan shroud is fine, the fan is an upgraded one. The rubber on the outside of the rad needs to be replaced which might hurt airflow with fan off. The fan does seem to work, but should I really need it at 65 mph? Unless I'm making stupid power, which I am not.

If it's hot the factory KW gauge will be 210f-220f all the time. The ECM reads cooler. Its about 93f here in western AR. Heading north up 49 so it will be fun. Across 40 the fan kept coming on at highway speed, which means it hit 208f at the ECM. I have a display for the ECM reading.

Running 65, even if I back out of it and start gearing down, it seems like it just won't chill out even if the fan comes on. It will hang out at 200-205 at the ecm even at low fuel flow, as low as 15 gph. That's fuck all. That's below Prime company driver power levels. My Volvo did 17 gph, the fan on that thing would come on maybe once a year. You had to be full throttle at 25 mph or below for a while before it would start creeping above 190f.

I'm going to log going up some of the hills. Mostly keep an eye on AIT which I cant see with my display. I took some fuel out and will adjust the VGT a bit. I think it was opening a bit too much. I really need a back pressure gauge. I know I'm overfueling a bit at 28gph at 1500, so I avoid going above 24. If I go 26-28, EGT will skyrocket at about 30f per second. But it doesn't seem to help the coolant situation. It makes about 35 psi, maybe I just need more boost at those power levels?

The tinkering continues. I have not checked the muffler (horizontal weed burner) for plugging. I have a feeling between the muffler, fueling, turbo size, VGT setting, rad rubber, backpessure readings I will figure it out. There's not much left. I just feel like at my power levels I should never need the fan at highway speed.
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Old 06-17-2022, 09:39 PM   #32
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I had a muffler under mine for a while because I hate the noise but took it off and the EGT temp drop was significant but it was entirely too small for the engine. At 1100hp cat says it should flow roughly 5,500cfm with a 2400cfm muffler it didn’t work. Water temp wasn’t changed but is never an issue, even this week when it was 98* when coolant got to 215 or intake temp got over 150* the fan always brought it down. The T8 and W9 radiator is similar in size so you have something else going on.

You sure you don’t have a stuck or leaking thermostat? That’s the issue the colder ones have, they don’t allow the coolant to stay in the radiator long enough to cool off.

Who’s radiator? Did you ever shoot the top and bottom tanks with a thermometer when you stopped to see if there is any temp difference? Is the fan on at 65 because of coolant temp or something else like intake temp or bad high pressure a/c switch? This still a 12.7?
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Old 06-19-2022, 04:00 PM   #33
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You sure you don’t have a stuck or leaking thermostat? That’s the issue the colder ones have, they don’t allow the coolant to stay in the radiator long enough to cool off.
That's something I will check. My understanding is you want fast coolant flow through the rad so it is non laminar flow.

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Who’s radiator? Did you ever shoot the top and bottom tanks with a thermometer when you stopped to see if there is any temp difference? Is the fan on at 65 because of coolant temp or something else like intake temp or bad high pressure a/c switch? This still a 12.7?
Custom rad out of Winnipeg MB. 5 row core offset staggered (2/3/2/3/2/3). It looks noticeably better than the one that came out.

I just checked. I'm in ND where it's flat. 37c about 98f. I stopped for fuel immediately opened the hood and checked. 215f upper 185f lower. Then I high idled it at 1000 rpm with fan on. Started the pumps, put them in, washed the windshield and checked again. 185f and 140f. That to me suggests the cooling capacity is there.

I'm going with a steady 20 mph wind at 65 so the airflow is only 45 mph. Both the coolant and AIT will creep up to where the fan will kick on. Either accelerating or sometimes even when I turn into the wind a bit. Still flat ground. This suggests an airflow issue to me. It will come on around 10.4 GPH fuel delivery steady state which is around 190-200 HP.

Yes still a 12.7. PAI rebuild with monotherms. New APC head. 7014 injectors (industrial). S400 vgt with a 171701. At the top end of power I'm definitely pushing too hard. AITs will skyrocket quickly. I have some logs to look at later.

If I push it hard going up a hill the fan will come on due to AITs. Else it will be coolant. The AC will only kick on the fan at lower speeds.
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Old 06-19-2022, 05:55 PM   #34
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That's something I will check. My understanding is you want fast coolant flow through the rad so it is non laminar flow.



Custom rad out of Winnipeg MB. 5 row core offset staggered (2/3/2/3/2/3). It looks noticeably better than the one that came out.

I just checked. I'm in ND where it's flat. 37c about 98f. I stopped for fuel immediately opened the hood and checked. 215f upper 185f lower. Then I high idled it at 1000 rpm with fan on. Started the pumps, put them in, washed the windshield and checked again. 185f and 140f. That to me suggests the cooling capacity is there.

I'm going with a steady 20 mph wind at 65 so the airflow is only 45 mph. Both the coolant and AIT will creep up to where the fan will kick on. Either accelerating or sometimes even when I turn into the wind a bit. Still flat ground. This suggests an airflow issue to me. It will come on around 10.4 GPH fuel delivery steady state which is around 190-200 HP.

Yes still a 12.7. PAI rebuild with monotherms. New APC head. 7014 injectors (industrial). S400 vgt with a 171701. At the top end of power I'm definitely pushing too hard. AITs will skyrocket quickly. I have some logs to look at later.

If I push it hard going up a hill the fan will come on due to AITs. Else it will be coolant. The AC will only kick on the fan at lower speeds.

Not sure why you think you want fast flow, that’s why they offer dimpled tubes to slow it down. Longer it’s in the core the more heat transfer you get. I’m cooling 800hp in the T800 my uncle drives with a standard 4 row from RSH. Same with 2 W9’s and 2 other W9’s have 2 row aluminum both between 700-1200hp and none have coolant temp issues. I’m not a fan of staggered especially in dusty conditions, they plug up easy. I’ve also heard arguments on the staggered tubes limiting airflow that the back tubes don’t see hardy any cool air.

See lots of guys (especially gliders) that don’t have fan shrouds and the air just bypasses the radiator, that’s why I asked.

Ever thought about an adult sized turbo? Not sure why you want stock turbo airflow (71mm) with above stock fuel. Not sure how hard you are spinning it but overdriven the boost temp climbs fast. The 171702 is always the upgrade on the 12.7/C12 with even slightly over stock fuel. Do yourself a favor and scrap that Turbonator pos and size the turbo correctly.
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Old 06-20-2022, 08:07 AM   #35
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That's something I will check. My understanding is you want fast coolant flow through the rad so it is non laminar flow.
Too fast you don't have enough time to cool the water. Learned that in my youth when I pulled the thermostat out of my small block, got hotter than it did with a 180* thermostat. Knocked the guts out of my thermostat, and put the disc of it back in and she cooled down a ton, and would run cooler towing.


John has tuned both of our trucks, one is a T800 that he says runs about 625hp to the wheels, and it's still running the factory radiator from 2003 that's been in god knows how many dusty barn lots and fields. Not exactly clean highway miles.

The other is a 2015 Pete glider that we can still keep cool, though it takes pulling the hood and power washing the cooling package once a year. That radiator likes to collect stuff more than the old one, but it's the factory aluminum core instead of an old school copper and brass unit. No idea on power now other than what John thinks, closer to 850hp he says. We know it will run in the big gear up most any grade we have out east anywhere shy of 95K gross, and gets about 7mpg doing it. When it was still single turbo, and pre-overhaul she pegged Maryland CAT's dyno at 750hp

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Old 06-20-2022, 03:24 PM   #36
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The point of the dimples isn't to slow down the coolant, it's to turn laminar flow into turbulent flow. Its not exit temp that's important, it's btus which is temperature drop x mass flow.

The shroud around the fan is in good shape, although maybe it could be tighter to the fan. The rubber on the outside of the rad is gone on one side. That definitely isn't helping. I was thinking of making a plastic shroud that goes forward from the rad area.

Still the baby turbo which is definitely an issue at higher power. But even with low power I can still have issues. Yesterday I was on flat ground 98f with a bit of a crosswind and the coolant would hit 208f on every overpass. I bet I barely hit 300 HP.

One thing is for sure, I will never be going back to the 96mm turbine 1.32 housing combo on this engine.
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Old 06-20-2022, 04:42 PM   #37
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2002 Kenworth t800 rad

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The point of the dimples isn't to slow down the coolant, it's to turn laminar flow into turbulent flow. Its not exit temp that's important, it's btus which is temperature drop x mass flow.

The shroud around the fan is in good shape, although maybe it could be tighter to the fan. The rubber on the outside of the rad is gone on one side. That definitely isn't helping. I was thinking of making a plastic shroud that goes forward from the rad area.

Still the baby turbo which is definitely an issue at higher power. But even with low power I can still have issues. Yesterday I was on flat ground 98f with a bit of a crosswind and the coolant would hit 208f on every overpass. I bet I barely hit 300 HP.

One thing is for sure, I will never be going back to the 96mm turbine 1.32 housing combo on this engine.

That might not be the point of the dimples but according to the radiator mfg it raises coolant pressure changing nothing else so it’s definitely slowing flow.

The 96mm turbine is a turd, that’s the issue with all of the S400’s and why the 80mm surges on diesels. I’ve never had any issues with the 1.32 96mm combo on the smaller engines, or larger ones under 700hp.

Guy has a 12.7 here that’s overdriving the 702 so we sold him a 1.45 housing to try and slow it down. I guarantee there is a better option but 95% of the guys with Detroit’s won’t spend over $800 on anything.

Better get some thermostats in it or you will crack that Chinese head
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Old 06-20-2022, 07:09 PM   #38
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Jose apparently has direct replacements for the 96mm. I mean, it works fine if you are ok with some smoke when it's hot.

Looking at some logs it's not hard for me to hit 150f AITs. 95f or so outside. Maybe 20 seconds to hit that. There's one that goes much higher. I'm going to load them on the main computer this weekend and look at them through MLVHD. The DDDL log viewer sucks but it can export CSV files.

I think you are right about the rad inhibiting airflow. I think I had that problem before (airflow around the rad instead of through)this new rad, now it's doubled. I zigged when I should've zagged.

I'm actually really curious what turbo you guys think works good on a 12.7? A lot of guys are going back to the k31. Limits power but works well for everything else.
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Old 06-21-2022, 09:51 AM   #39
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Jose apparently has direct replacements for the 96mm. I mean, it works fine if you are ok with some smoke when it's hot.

Looking at some logs it's not hard for me to hit 150f AITs. 95f or so outside. Maybe 20 seconds to hit that. There's one that goes much higher. I'm going to load them on the main computer this weekend and look at them through MLVHD. The DDDL log viewer sucks but it can export CSV files.

I think you are right about the rad inhibiting airflow. I think I had that problem before (airflow around the rad instead of through)this new rad, now it's doubled. I zigged when I should've zagged.

I'm actually really curious what turbo you guys think works good on a 12.7? A lot of guys are going back to the k31. Limits power but works well for everything else.

Smoke isn’t an issue with most if you don’t shift and stomp it, if you wait a second for the charger to catch up before you step on it they’re pretty clean.

If you are using the Detroit sensor to measure intake air temp it’s going to be high because of what I’m assuming is valve overlap and heat soaked cast iron. The temperature difference between the CAC outlet and the oem head sensor is at least 20-30* higher at the head.
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Old 06-21-2022, 11:23 PM   #40
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I put in a bunch of plastic mudflap material around the rad to prevent bypass and it does seem to have improved. I can tell because AIT drops much faster coasting downhill. Good thing I've been paying attention.

But still sort of the same too. 80f outside, pulling a hill at 65 mph(Summit SD) coolant creeps up until the fan comes on. Still doing 65 mph. Coolant temp will not drop at max power with fan on. However if I back off even just 5% it makes a huge difference and coolant temp starts dropping. Also my EGTs are much better after some adjusting the VGT and lowering of max fuel. I think I'm around 31 GPH at 1600-1650. I have a log of the pull so I will check fuel delivery. AITs were definitely cooler.

Like recommended above, I'm going to look at the muffler and pull the thermostat out and test them. Also I would like to relocate thr AIT to the CAC outlet and add a temp sensor to turbo outlet. I really could use a backpreasure gauge too.

I still think it should perform better. Should've listened to you guys and got a RSH rad.
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