Injection System Question

[Gambler]

Originally Posted by Scooter's Roofing

actually... it was a VP44 problem...

I understand that the vp-44 would burn up basically, IF starved of fuel, but w/ a good lift pump system, I'd never heard of them having problems, but I don't make a living on diesel trucks...do I have or has the wool been pulled over my eyes?
My 1st diesel truck was an 01 Dodge and I bought it w/ 115 on the clock an I put small set of inj, small electronic tuner, and FASS system on it around 150 and drove it till 245 when I got rid of it, never gave me a problem. Does that go for everyone that has a vp-44, No, just like a comparison w/ what we've been discussing, actually you discussing, I'm setting back and trying to take notes

[wise guy]

Originally Posted by Gambler

Now, here's one, so Ford stopped w/ the 6.4 for a reason you say and you've definitely backed it up. If Ford was using International, why not go w/ a straight 6 design like they used in some industrial designs? I'm not out to knock them and maybe Ford is just stuck on reinventing the wheel. Chrysler Corp got w/ Cummins and they did exactly that. An industrial engine that had been tried and true and developed a way to install in a manufactured pick up.

never really been an issue with v8 vs inline 6 fords problems go more of an issue with contracts engineering and accounting. Back in the 90's ford dominated the light diesel market international provided reliable diesels with market leading power ford absolutely dominated the light duty market. ford stuck school bus motor in a truck. Ford is in business to sell trucks period! In the 90's ford competed with 6.5 turbo what a turd and 12 valve or early 24 valve wow feel the 215bhp in early 00's gm finally had engine to compete and cummins finally went common rail emission laws were coming ford had to make changes. both gm and dodge were over 300hp now In 03 ford got the 6.0 325hp 565tq with the lowest emissions but was plagued with reliability issues. Ford demanded international to fix the issues international basically drug there feet eventually adding common rail injection and a redesigned emission system and other slight changes so it became the 6.4. Fords test mules were an epic failure in fuel economy and reliability. Ford made the decision to part ways with international and design there own diesel. ford was and is still under contract with international as sole engine supplier "And still is for several more years" in light duty diesel trucks. Thousands of lawsuits are still pending between ford vs international over the breach of contract. Ford countered with internatonal knew of design issues and component problems with there engines but failed to remedy these issues ultimately leaving the consumer with footing the bill to repair them. Dealers were not much help as ford policy was very strick getting reimbursed from ford was difficult as international was not reimbursing ford for most warranty issues claiming it was fords programming causing the problems. Meanwhile fords competition was getting better every year both gm and dodge basically was evolving the same platform getting better every year. Starting in 2011 the 6.7 powerstroke is an all ford engine. ford opted for mostly proven technology . Ford spent an unprecedented amount of money and manpower getting them caught back up in diesel game not saying 6.7 is without issues but ford has tried to fix there issues. None of these had anything to do with v8 vs inline 6 design ultimately ford decision to contract with international brought them huge success in the 90's destroyed there reputation in the 00's. Now that they no longer outsource there engines ford is forced to take full responsibility and have, most of the common problems are addressed with the newer models updated components ect...

[wise guy]

Originally Posted by Gambler

I understand that the vp-44 would burn up basically, IF starved of fuel, but w/ a good lift pump system, I'd never heard of them having problems, but I don't make a living on diesel trucks...do I have or has the wool been pulled over my eyes?
My 1st diesel truck was an 01 Dodge and I bought it w/ 115 on the clock an I put small set of inj, small electronic tuner, and FASS system on it around 150 and drove it till 245 when I got rid of it, never gave me a problem. Does that go for everyone that has a vp-44, No, just like a comparison w/ what we've been discussing, actually you discussing, I'm setting back and trying to take notes

vp motors are pretty reliable base engine wise change oil they can easily go 750,000 miles modern engines are quantum leap in technology double the power and 99% reduction in emissions not without a cost overall longevity is significantly less.

[Gambler]

Very interesting. Can a cp3 replace a cp4 on the 6.7? Or are the designs totally different?
Also, if one was to add a fuel additive, would that help enough incase of BAD FUEL? The possibilities are still there of getting bad or contaminated fuel and one would not necessarily know IF the fuel was bad or contaminated. Not trying to be a pain, but I think legitimate consumer questions in regards to Ford

[Gambler]

Not FORD, FUEL.

[Scooter's Roofing]

you can't simply replace the CP4 with a CP3...

you're talking about how many fairies can dance on the head of a pin at this point...

since the 6.7's came out, we've replaced two fuel systems (small independent shop that invoices ~$50-70k/month)

probably twenty 6.4 fuel systems

I can't count how many CP3's and CR injectors

obviously much of this has to do with the age of the trucks, but the 6.7's have already been around twice as long as the 6.4's

we have a pretty good finger on the pulse of what's going on with trucks in the area. the fuel system on the Ford 6.7 is no less reliable than any other recent offering from any of the big three... the biggest difference between it and the Dodge and GM offerings is that the truck isn't a steaming pile of chit!

[Gambler]

Originally Posted by Scooter's Roofing

you can't simply replace the CP4 with a CP3...

you're talking about how many fairies can dance on the head of a pin at this point...

since the 6.7's came out, we've replaced two fuel systems (small independent shop that invoices ~$50-70k/month)

probably twenty 6.4 fuel systems

I can't count how many CP3's and CR injectors

obviously much of this has to do with the age of the trucks, but the 6.7's have already been around twice as long as the 6.4's

we have a pretty good finger on the pulse of what's going on with trucks in the area. the fuel system on the Ford 6.7 is no less reliable than any other recent offering from any of the big three... the biggest difference between it and the Dodge and GM offerings is that the truck isn't a steaming pile of chit!

Well, it definitely appears that YOU are a Ford guy
It's quite humorous when you talk to aguy that is Pro in whatever of the Big 3....I try not to be bias which is why I started this thread...I've started a thread in the Cummins or Duramax section about guys that went from Dodge to Chevy....
To each his own. Knew a guy that had a shop here in N. Little Rock and Ford 6.0's paid his bills. He was a Cummins guy and every time I would ask him about going to a Chevy or Ford he would normally tell me they were junk...
I'm found of the Cummins but looking at a Ford now. As much as I like the 2010, a few previous post have scared me off...so I reckon I will start looking into a 6.7.

[wise guy]

Originally Posted by Scooter's Roofing

you can't simply replace the CP4 with a CP3...

you're talking about how many fairies can dance on the head of a pin at this point...

since the 6.7's came out, we've replaced two fuel systems (small independent shop that invoices ~$50-70k/month)

probably twenty 6.4 fuel systems

I can't count how many CP3's and CR injectors

obviously much of this has to do with the age of the trucks, but the 6.7's have already been around twice as long as the 6.4's

we have a pretty good finger on the pulse of what's going on with trucks in the area. the fuel system on the Ford 6.7 is no less reliable than any other recent offering from any of the big three... the biggest difference between it and the Dodge and GM offerings is that the truck isn't a steaming pile of chit!

must be the area we do double that volume of trucks we do more 6.7 pumps than 6.4. we pull tanks on every truck with pump issues amazes me what they get away with calling diesel. I personally like the 6.7 the overall failures are very minor by comparison

[wise guy]

Originally Posted by Gambler

Very interesting. Can a cp3 replace a cp4 on the 6.7? Or are the designs totally different?
Also, if one was to add a fuel additive, would that help enough incase of BAD FUEL? The possibilities are still there of getting bad or contaminated fuel and one would not necessarily know IF the fuel was bad or contaminated. Not trying to be a pain, but I think legitimate consumer questions in regards to Ford

best answer is buy good fuel from high volume station preferably big truck stop, change filters put good lubricity cetane booster in and drive it. I have seen 6.7 go over 400k with normal maintenance only repair was egt sensors. I would look for higher mileage 6.7. A customer of mine bought 2012 ccsbKR picked it up for 19k we went trough it had just under 200k we service all fluids fix leaking wheel seal replaced tires and brakes new exhaust and minmaxx truck was like new inside not a scratch on it i don't think it ever towed anything in its life. all in truck was like new and had less than 25 in it. Dealers would not touch it simply because of the miles. and like i told him even if something takes a dump he is in it cheap enough to offset the cost

[TheBigNasty]

Meh. There's basically two options when it comes to people like this.

1. Buy a new truck. Forget about BAD FUEL. Understand any vehicle may have problems at some point. Drive it. Enjoy it.

2. Buy an old mechanical engine. Forget about BAD FUEL because they'll run on damn near anything. Fix the old worn out truck many times over and realize each time it will never be as nice as a newer truck. Maybe brag to your friends that you have "no truck payment" to make yourself feel better.

[cumminstroked]

If you do the right maintenance and preventative maintenance any truck can be a good truck. None of the newer trucks really impress me when it comes to durability and wallet friendly maintenance. I have a 6.4 that is deleted and tuned and it rides and tows like a dream. Before that was. 6.0. It was a good truck too. Preventative maintenance is key to any of these trucks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scooter's Roofing]

Originally Posted by Gambler

Well, it definitely appears that YOU are a Ford guy
It's quite humorous when you talk to aguy that is Pro in whatever of the Big 3....I try not to be bias which is why I started this thread...I've started a thread in the Cummins or Duramax section about guys that went from Dodge to Chevy....
To each his own. Knew a guy that had a shop here in N. Little Rock and Ford 6.0's paid his bills. He was a Cummins guy and every time I would ask him about going to a Chevy or Ford he would normally tell me they were junk...
I'm found of the Cummins but looking at a Ford now. As much as I like the 2010, a few previous post have scared me off...so I reckon I will start looking into a 6.7.

I'm a quality guy... I'm a value guy...

I drove Dodges for YEARS. I was blinded by the Cummins. Once I got into the CR stuff and no longer had the 12v reliability to cloud my judgement, I bought my first Ford.

I felt like such a fool for all those years... I knew Dodge trucks were lesser quality, but I figured the Cummins cured all ills. I always used to say "I'd buy a YUGO if they'd put a Cummins in it"

I knew the Dodge wasn't top quality, but I never actually realized it was junk until I started driving Fords.

I've been in/under/around enough Dmax trucks to know that they just aren't' for me. They're cheap tin cans with a mediocre engine and transmission. They're light weight, so they're quick with little power, but that's a one-trick pony IMO. I know people love them. The transmission is awesome in a bone stock configuration, but seeing as I'm not a 78yr old man, I don't believe in stock configuration trucks. The transmission is a liability, otherwise. The engine is ok enough, but a pain to work on.

I'd rather have an engine that's a pain to work on with the best transmission of the big three in the highest quality truck of the big three... Ford

with Dodge you get the easiest engine to work on with a junk transmission in a junk truck...

Ford just offers the best overall package. So, because I like quality and quality per dollar, I get called a Ford guy. Not so much. My wife drives a Hyundai because it ran circles around every domestic and other import offering we shopped. Their 2.0 turbo will smoke the **** out of a Ford 2.0 Ecoboost and gets better fuel mileage. The car is more aerodynamic than a C5 coupe! 10yr 100k warranty, etc. So we bought the best overall package for the money... We're not "hyundai people"

[Scooter's Roofing]

Originally Posted by wise guy

must be the area we do double that volume of trucks we do more 6.7 pumps than 6.4. we pull tanks on every truck with pump issues amazes me what they get away with calling diesel. I personally like the 6.7 the overall failures are very minor by comparison

I will readily admit that we don't seem to get the fuel quality issues that other parts of the nation do. Maybe it's being right at the tit with all the refineries around? I don't know...

knock wood, but I have NEVER had a fuel system related ISSUE with one of my trucks... I have bought trucks that needed an injector or two. But I have literally never had a lift pump failure, an injection pump failure, an injector failure, etc.

good fuel or good luck? some say I lead a charmed life... I'd rather be lucky than good I suppose!

I've owned 25+ diesel trucks over the course of 16+yrs. I often have three at any given time, and I keep the ones I really like for 4yrs or so. I've had my current 6.4 for 4yrs on a race tune the whole time, and I'd hop in and drive it anywhere at a moment's notice.

If the injection pump signs off on me? I'll finally get an excuse after 4yrs to put these 71/59's on the truck. I bought them way back, but couldn't bring myself to break the seal on a truck that ran so perfect. I still carry only a 5* EOT delta running down the road. Cab bolts have never been touched. Job 1 mid '07 build truck. the ONLY unscheduled maint was a single glow plug.

[Scooter's Roofing]

Originally Posted by TheBigNasty

Meh. There's basically two options when it comes to people like this.

1. Buy a new truck. Forget about BAD FUEL. Understand any vehicle may have problems at some point. Drive it. Enjoy it.

2. Buy an old mechanical engine. Forget about BAD FUEL because they'll run on damn near anything. Fix the old worn out truck many times over and realize each time it will never be as nice as a newer truck. Maybe brag to your friends that you have "no truck payment" to make yourself feel better.

but that truck lyfe though!

built not bought, man!!!

I can dang ol' change ball joints in muh 12v in under 3hrs now that I've done it every three months for the past 6yrs!!!

[Gambler]

Originally Posted by Scooter's Roofing

I'm a quality guy... I'm a value guy...

I drove Dodges for YEARS. I was blinded by the Cummins. Once I got into the CR stuff and no longer had the 12v reliability to cloud my judgement, I bought my first Ford.

I felt like such a fool for all those years... I knew Dodge trucks were lesser quality, but I figured the Cummins cured all ills. I always used to say "I'd buy a YUGO if they'd put a Cummins in it"

I knew the Dodge wasn't top quality, but I never actually realized it was junk until I started driving Fords.

I've been in/under/around enough Dmax trucks to know that they just aren't' for me. They're cheap tin cans with a mediocre engine and transmission. They're light weight, so they're quick with little power, but that's a one-trick pony IMO. I know people love them. The transmission is awesome in a bone stock configuration, but seeing as I'm not a 78yr old man, I don't believe in stock configuration trucks. The transmission is a liability, otherwise. The engine is ok enough, but a pain to work on.

I'd rather have an engine that's a pain to work on with the best transmission of the big three in the highest quality truck of the big three... Ford

with Dodge you get the easiest engine to work on with a junk transmission in a junk truck...

Ford just offers the best overall package. So, because I like quality and quality per dollar, I get called a Ford guy. Not so much. My wife drives a Hyundai because it ran circles around every domestic and other import offering we shopped. Their 2.0 turbo will smoke the **** out of a Ford 2.0 Ecoboost and gets better fuel mileage. The car is more aerodynamic than a C5 coupe! 10yr 100k warranty, etc. So we bought the best overall package for the money... We're not "hyundai people"

Well you probably knew this was coming, but in your professional opinion, how is the Cummins junk? I understand the " Ford/Chevy/Dodge / Hwhatever PEOPLE "
I definitely understand about the Tranny's and interior....
Like I stated in the 1st post, venturing out and trying to learn and understand more about the Ford's...I would like NOT to be blind walking into buying a new truck, hence a 6.4 or 6.7, plus The King Ranch editions are SOOOOOO D*** SEXY. I've drove about 30k miles w/ a Longhorn Laramie auto and it was ok, but I just wasn't impressed.

[Scooter's Roofing]

I drive my trucks from the inside, so interior comfort is critical. I also don't like being surrounded by chincy junk that rattles and falls apart. I don't like being reminded that I'm driving a pile!

Transmission goes without saying. Any of the big three will make 500hp without much more than a tune.

I don't want to have to drop $5-7k on a transmission to harness that power from a company that may or not be around to warranty or even buy replacement parts from in a few years.

I assure you brand loyalty plays no part ultimately in my decision making, so the decision makes itself for me

[Scooter's Roofing]

My only problem with the 6.7 king ranch trucks is that the leather is no longer real leather. It's the same cheap stuff as the lariats, but they wear worse IMO. They look great until they start to wear, and they can't be restored like the real leather of offs

[Gambler]

I get the part about the body and front end...what's wrong in your professional opinion as to your statement that a Cummins is junk or were you referencing Dodge truck as a whole?

[TheBigNasty]

I have a spot in my drivers seat where my belt must've drug. I asked a friend that does interior detail and restoration for dealerships about fixing it. He says ok, then goes "wait, that's a king ranch? No, that's real leather so I can't fix it like I would any other "leather""

It's a 2012 and while it's not the thick leather like years past, I believe it's still leather. The 2015+, I'm not so sure about that microfiber feeling stuff.

[Scooter's Roofing]

I mean... it's leather like the lariat seats are leather, but it's not true analine leather like the previous years