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Dodge Competition and Performance General Dodge Competition and Performance Discussion |
01-30-2018, 04:18 PM
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#1
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Name: TruckYou
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2016
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Posts: 132
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Flycutting Pistons
Originally intended in running a 188/220, but plans evoloved and now putting the 207/220 in the engine on my stand. Hamilton just says .100 flycuts, but doesn't say "if piston protrusion=X and valve face depth=X
Stock sized valves in the head (1.77 and 1.65)
.020 piston protrusion
.025 valve face depth
.020 head gasket will be used
Cam- Hamiltons 207/220( .360/.360)
Hamilton recommends a .100 flycuts
How much larger than the valve are flycuts typically cut?
.100 deep enough? Little extra for insurance?
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01-30-2018, 08:35 PM
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#2
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Name: ComnRailPwr
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Stoutsville , OH
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Posts: 3,293
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You can't have .020 protrusion and .020 HG Thickness. I never let piston get closer than .030 to the head. And never let valve get closer than .050 to piston on high rev motors. Also can't determine relief depth without knowing cam lift at TDC on both intake and exhaust. Also we assume factory rocker ratio?
Last edited by ComnRailPwr; 01-30-2018 at 08:37 PM.
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01-31-2018, 11:19 AM
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#3
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
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Assuming this is a 12v engine? If so, piston protrusion sounds right, usually .0195". A standard thickness gasket can be used with that. If you were to cut .006" off of the deck, increasing the protrusion, you'll want at least .010" over gasket. However, that spec is tailored to a stock engine. An aftermarket cam most of the time throws all of that out the window.
Valve face depth (recession) sounds a little low to me though unless this head has had some custom work done to it. A stock 12v head will have a minimum valve recession of about .035", if I recall correctly.
Most fly cuts I've read about usually end up around .250" but as mentioned above, many other bits of info are needed first in order to determine the depth of the reliefs.
If you've run all of this info by the guys at Hamilton, they should be able to give good recommendations specific to your application.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
Last edited by jimbo486; 01-31-2018 at 11:22 AM.
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01-31-2018, 11:21 AM
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#4
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Name: YoungDiesel27
Title: Never Enough Time
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West Virginia
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Posts: 825
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For the size of the cut around the valve, I would do 0.100” bigger than the valve.
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EFI Live, HP Tuners, Smarty custom tuning
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01-31-2018, 04:01 PM
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#5
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Name: Rich dzl
Title: 12v guru
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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Posts: 741
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188/220 will outperform the 207/220 and last a lot longer ..
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02-01-2018, 02:00 AM
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#6
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Name: TruckYou
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2016
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Posts: 132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo486
Assuming this is a 12v engine? If so, piston protrusion sounds right, usually .0195". A standard thickness gasket can be used with that. If you were to cut .006" off of the deck, increasing the protrusion, you'll want at least .010" over gasket. However, that spec is tailored to a stock engine. An aftermarket cam most of the time throws all of that out the window.
Valve face depth (recession) sounds a little low to me though unless this head has had some custom work done to it. A stock 12v head will have a minimum valve recession of about .035", if I recall correctly.
Most fly cuts I've read about usually end up around .250" but as mentioned above, many other bits of info are needed first in order to determine the depth of the reliefs.
If you've run all of this info by the guys at Hamilton, they should be able to give good recommendations specific to your application.
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Thanks for the information. In fact, i stated the incorrect Valve face depth. When I had the valve job done, I had then cut from .025 to .055, which at the time was planning on using the 188/220, which was the reason for the .055 vfd. And yes, this is a 12v p7100 build
188/220 is a great cam, I'm not knocking the longevity of the equipment, Iv run this cam shaft in my other truck, but this engines going in a truck I'll be using for drag racing, running higher rpm and large compound s400s , and was looking for a cam shaft for that rpm range. The .020+ HG has been the plan just to lower compression a smig due to the large turbos, and my cylinder heads fire ring grooves are cut to the .020" HG ring depth requirements currently... cut/drilled/tapped intake, and drilled for 14mm studs, p&p...
Now that I think about it, I could set the head on the block, slide the cam in and take a measurement with the depth gauge, I just figured the comp section would be a good place to ask. All my machine work was done to meet the criteria of Hamilton's "drop in" 188/220 (no more than .025 PP and at least .055 vfd) so it seems my measurements are fairly standard,
Last edited by TruckYou; 02-01-2018 at 02:03 AM.
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02-01-2018, 03:18 AM
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#7
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Name: Cflanery88
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Shelby, MI 49455
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I’m running a 188/220 and if I remember correctly with .030 flycuts I was .070-.085” clearance with std gasket, .025 pp and .045-.055 vfd. Zach told me I wouldn’t need fly cuts but I ordered pistons with them anyway to be sure.
__________________
06 Dodge Ram 2500 6.4L, Wagler +.080 rods, Hobbit tuned, Exergy150% injectors,Polished s475/87 1:0 A/R Engineered Turbo Billet Wheel,arp625s,14mm main studs,PPE dual fuelers,Hamilton 188/220,extreme pushrods,Fleece bypass/drains/distribution block,110#springs.
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02-01-2018, 03:49 AM
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#8
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Name: thinair
Title: Not Enough time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: BC Canada
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Posts: 148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich dzl
188/220 will outperform the 207/220 and last a lot longer ..
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Just curious, why do you say this?
__________________
94 12v. NV4500 Valair twin disc, Seth stage 4, DDP 5x14, 024 dv. Fass 260. T4 ATS. 362sxe. 150 ii springs.
2012 3500 CCSB. Thuren 2.5 kings, DT Profab radius arms. Carli LT Airbags/Sway Bar
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02-01-2018, 11:34 AM
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#9
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Name: Win slow
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: CT
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Posts: 87
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You should check for your self but i think .050"-.060" on exhaust and .100" on intake should give you plenty of room. Also I think the 207/220 will work well for you just check for coil bind that cam gives some serious lift.
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02-01-2018, 12:14 PM
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#10
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Name: Rich dzl
Title: 12v guru
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Posts: 741
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188/220 made more peak power below 4000 rpm on the dyno , but if you desire power above 4K then 207 might be better
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02-01-2018, 02:22 PM
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#11
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Name: Win slow
Title: Green Behind the Ears
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: CT
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Posts: 87
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I have no back to back dyno info I have just seen that 207 work well for a few friends maybe the 188 is better id like to hear if any one else has done dyno testing and would be willing to share what they learned. Thanks for sharing Rich most people won't give up dyno results and its expensive to do so most don't.
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02-01-2018, 04:04 PM
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#12
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Name: YOUNG GUNS15
Title: Im AWESOME!!!!
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Utah
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Posts: 7,346
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Ultimate goal for the truck?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Spence
-1994 4x4 12 valve 13mm, single 475 748/1292 Fuel 872/1470 N2O
-2005 4x4 12 valve CCSB 3rd gen '12-rail' 280hp
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02-01-2018, 05:03 PM
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#13
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pa.
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Posts: 18,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUNG GUNS15
Ultimate goal for the truck?
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I'm going to guess only 1000 hp
Last edited by Snedge; 02-01-2018 at 05:08 PM.
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02-08-2018, 03:40 PM
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#14
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Name: thinair
Title: Not Enough time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: BC Canada
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Posts: 148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich dzl
188/220 made more peak power below 4000 rpm on the dyno , but if you desire power above 4K then 207 might be better
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Just curious, What head was used for the above info?
__________________
94 12v. NV4500 Valair twin disc, Seth stage 4, DDP 5x14, 024 dv. Fass 260. T4 ATS. 362sxe. 150 ii springs.
2012 3500 CCSB. Thuren 2.5 kings, DT Profab radius arms. Carli LT Airbags/Sway Bar
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