12000rpm cp3?

joefarmer

joefarmer

MR. Supreme Overlord
wickeddiesels said:
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That pump displaces 393 LPH @ 3500 rpm, that is above 95% volumetric efficiency and 2x the flow of a stock CP3. So whoever thinks efficiency is the issue, try again.

Alot has been tried, alot of money has been spent, alot of time has been spent, alot of testing has been done.

One might consider what all has been tried, before they think they have all it all figured out, I know I sure don't and have been doing pumps for a long time.
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So I was reading the sheet Shane posted and they're tested to 4300rpm. How about 12000rpm?
 
like a turbo, you can only spin them so fast. I'd think the fuel eventually would have to much drag getting it into the plungers
 
joefarmer said:
So I was reading the sheet Shane posted and they're tested to 4300rpm. How about 12000rpm?
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Why not go for max flow at lower rpm, 2000-3200rpm range? There are very few CR engines making a sh!t ton of power beyond 3500rpm unless they have a stand alone ecu.
 
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Fill rate becomes the issue, you can keep upping the internal pressure and upsizing passages but at a point you simply cant overcome it.

I plumbed one pump with all the passages external, to get rid of all the 90 degree turns and it helped, but it is hard to keep all the lines from leaking. This in conjuction with upping the internal pressure works but puts alot of stress on the supply pump drive, on the back of the CP3.

You reach a point and it becomes a wall you cant overcome, guess we'll see how far we can go with the CP4.2

Also pulse width narrows as rpm climbs, so it tends to even itself out a little, as not so much volume is needed up there.
 
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Thanks Shane. So if the I supply the pump with 200psi of fuel and left off the rear supply pump, the internal passages wouldn't flow enough to turn 12000?
 
The CP3 will eat itself at a certain point, the polygon will start over centering and side loading the tappets, then the plungers will hang in the bores and break.

We have turned them above 6000 with no issues, not sure what they will flow up there but it has been done.
 
WICKEDDIESELS said:
The CP3 will eat itself at a certain point, the polygon will start over centering and side loading the tappets, then the plungers will hang in the bores and break.

We have turned them above 6000 with no issues, not sure what they will flow up there but it has been done.
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I turn 5800 rpm with my single II pump, it seems to get the job done, accually RP increases at that RPM due to Computer Defuel.
 
Can't say much for 12k but just had a look at my data logs, and flow at 5500 seems to be no issue. I had a good curve of FCA duty, injector pulse width, rpm can't seem to find the log file, if I find it I'll post it.

I don't think there would be a cavitation issue if you increase the supply pressure significantly. (Cummins pumps seem to get away with it)
 
Joesixpack said:
Can't say much for 12k but just had a look at my data logs, and flow at 5500 seems to be no issue. I had a good curve of FCA duty, injector pulse width, rpm can't seem to find the log file, if I find it I'll post it.

I don't think there would be a cavitation issue if you increase the supply pressure significantly. (Cummins pumps seem to get away with it)
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The CP3 has an overfill valve, if the inlet pressure exceeds the overfill valves (cascade) pressure it sends the fuel back to the tank.

If you got rid of the gear pump, and raised the opening pressure of the overfill valve significantly, you could feed it with a higher pressure pump. The stock gear pump can make huge pressures and can flow all the volume you need, so I don't see the point in changing it.

We tested the pumps at varying supply pressures, in our pumps 1.5 bar or about 22 psi produced 97.5% efficiency. Delivery was down with less supply pressure.
 
WICKEDDIESELS said:
The CP3 has an overfill valve, if the inlet pressure exceeds the overfill valves (cascade) pressure it sends the fuel back to the tank.

If you got rid of the gear pump, and raised the opening pressure of the overfill valve significantly, you could feed it with a higher pressure pump. The stock gear pump can make huge pressures and can flow all the volume you need, so I don't see the point in changing it.

We tested the pumps at varying supply pressures, in our pumps 1.5 bar or about 22 psi produced 97.5% efficiency. Delivery was down with less supply pressure.
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Did you find no gain from >9bar inlet pressure?

I'm attempting to decide whether I can get away with a pair of stock pumps overdriven 2:1 if they're supplied with 9-10bar of supply fuel (read: I haven't found a CP3 sponsor yet :hehe:). All 6 injectors total consumed fuel should be in the range of 280 lph. And the second pump is driven in series using the supply pump's drive spline. Which is why I want to feed both pumps with 9bar fuel and don't want to use the built-in supply pump.
 
CP3

Brandon, I have been playing with inlet pressure after reading what Shane has posted on another forum and havn't really seen any gains. I'm having rail problems with my stock motor and made a setup like Shane said (Thanks Shane) and have a boost ref. to the supply pressure pump/reg. running about 15 at idle and goes 1 to 1 with boost. So with 30 lbs of boost i'm running 45 psi at the cp3. I think it helped the low end out more than anything. I'm thinking it helps pressure before the cp3 get's wound up with rpm. My low end grunt was the benifit I seen with higher feed pressure. Jeff
 
on the cummins pump more inlet psi is needed for RPM, on a d-max it has a suction side allready, the cummins does not. the d-max pump is allready better in stock form alone. In theory a stronger fill charge should net better RP.....
 
Both my Cummins pumps see 60psi at idle now....not boost referenced anymore. It doesn't dip at all when I floor it while driving...RP climbs instantly with throttle input.
 
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