Advertisement
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Home Who's Online Today's Posts HP Calculator CompD Gift Shop Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together > Tech Area- Dodge > Dodge Tech > 89-93 1st Gen.
Register Members List Timeslips EFI Live Library Invite Your Friends FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-24-2016, 10:54 PM   #21
SKYNYRD
 
SKYNYRD's Avatar

Name: SKYNYRD
Title: "Drunkard"
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,665
Bottom tap them all. Run the stud to the bottom and then back it out IIRC two turns. Otherwise you might not actually be getting all the studs torqued down the same.
__________________
Leonard
79 VW rabbit diesel (ALH & 4motion )
04.5 rclb 4x4
01 & 03 VW Golf TDI
05 rcsb 2wd (in progress)
ROSKOE115: "It's ain't avatar material but I'd hit it!"
 
Old 03-24-2016, 11:38 PM   #22
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
I think I'd go crazy seeing all of the studs at different installed heights.

ARP's instructions say nothing about backing them out whatsoever. Only to run them in hand tight until they bottom.

What reason do you say to back them out ~2 turns?
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
 
Old 03-26-2016, 01:34 PM   #23
BC847
 
BC847's Avatar

Name: BC847
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 851
To realize the full clamping force provided by the fastener, all the threads must be clean and uniform in profile. This ensures full thread engagement.

Bottom-tap all the head-bolt bores.
__________________
Original owner of a VE fueled 1993 W250 ClubCab.


Silencer ring MIA, str8 pipe with 10" exhaust tip, 250psi boost gauge, ghost-lights 'n truck-nutz. K&N air filter next (if my grades are good enoufh).
 
Old 03-26-2016, 04:14 PM   #24
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
My thoughts exactly. That's what I was waiting to hear for confirmation.

Thanks, Dave.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
 
Old 03-30-2016, 06:32 PM   #25
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
The reman'd Cummins cylinder head from Eric at Hungry Diesel finally arrived yesterday. Although it wasn't packaged the way Eric had initially packed it. The lid wasn't fastened to the crate and was only held down by two steel straps. Found the head upside down and the wrapping torn open as evidenced by the superficial rust on 5 and 6 . Why the crate wasn't built to a size only slightly larger than the head, I dunno. I sure wouldn't have built it smaller.

Click the image to open in full size.

.062" stainless steel wire with .012" protrusion.
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

The extent of the "damage" that I can see with my naked eye is a little scuffing on #1 intake valve spring retainer.

Click the image to open in full size.

I'm not sure what the chances are of any stems being bent from the abuse. But, for what I've got in this motor up to this point, I'm not risking anything. I'm getting this thing to a local machine shop to have the valves pulled and checked.

I also got word from the machine shop that the shortblock is complete and ready to go. It won't be until Monday when I can go get it. I still have a few more parts to order but that will happen shortly.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600

Last edited by jimbo486; 03-30-2016 at 06:33 PM.
 
Old 04-05-2016, 12:44 AM   #26
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
The head and valves checked out perfect. The machine shop I brought it to was very impressed with the work and was very thorough in their inspection. Along with checking the stems for any bends, they checked the stem lengths, spring heights and rates. Stems were all identical and all springs were very close to one another, 163-165lbs. Happy with my patience, they didn't even charge me for the 1 hour of work.

I took today off of work to pick up the shortblock and bring 'er back home.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
 
Old 04-05-2016, 09:22 PM   #27
fatty
 
fatty's Avatar

Name: fatty
Title: VE
Status: Here
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SW Idaho
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 957
Mind sharing what that head cost you?

As far as bottom tapping goes, the only reason it needs to be done is so the valve covers fit on. I don't remember the exact number but something like 70 percent of the clamping force is on the first thread. Another 20 or so is on the second thread. The bottom threads of the stud are doing nothing as far as clamping force.

Again, my numbers may be off somewhat but the point is still the same.
__________________
91.5 W250
2019 F350
 
Old 04-06-2016, 01:41 AM   #28
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
I'd have to look back over the invoice for the itemized prices but the head alone from Cummins was $1400 plus a $215 core charge. After all work was done and shipping added to it, it came out to right about $3000.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600

Last edited by jimbo486; 04-06-2016 at 01:48 AM.
 
Old 04-06-2016, 03:52 PM   #29
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
Cummins 12 valve head: $1,400.00
O-Ring Head: $250.00
Hamilton 165lbs. Valve Springs: $549.00
3-Angle Valve Job, Port/Polish, install Valve Springs: $750.00
Core Charge On Cummins Head: $215.00

Total: $3164.

Another heavy box showed up yesterday.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600

Last edited by jimbo486; 04-06-2016 at 03:54 PM.
 
Old 04-07-2016, 08:03 PM   #30
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
Billet freeze plugs. Waiting on the rear plug from Keating.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
 
Old 04-07-2016, 09:40 PM   #31
SKYNYRD
 
SKYNYRD's Avatar

Name: SKYNYRD
Title: "Drunkard"
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,665
The reason for bottoming the stud then backing it out 1-2 turns is so that if the stud turns while tightening it won't bottom out against the block. If the stud bottoms out and you keep tightening it then if could give you and false clamping force on the head or the stud can break.
__________________
Leonard
79 VW rabbit diesel (ALH & 4motion )
04.5 rclb 4x4
01 & 03 VW Golf TDI
05 rcsb 2wd (in progress)
ROSKOE115: "It's ain't avatar material but I'd hit it!"
 
Old 04-07-2016, 09:57 PM   #32
Ram12vcummins

Name: Ram12vcummins
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2015
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,659
Disassembly for rebuild has started.

Bottom tapping holes on a motor your rebuilding shouldn't be a questions of do I need to do it. It's the same as cleaning the oil galley. Should be done on all holes. Why not clean the crap falls in them and clean the threads.
 
Old 04-08-2016, 05:11 PM   #33
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
 
Old 04-10-2016, 11:29 PM   #34
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
Little progress made this weekend. My family decided to surprise me with a birthday party yesterday. Picked up a bottoming tap on Friday. Earlier this evening, I put the billet freeze plugs in.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600

Last edited by jimbo486; 04-10-2016 at 11:31 PM.
 
Old 04-11-2016, 12:54 AM   #35
Big Blue24
 
Big Blue24's Avatar

Name: Big Blue24
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cedar City, UT
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 6,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYNYRD View Post
The reason for bottoming the stud then backing it out 1-2 turns is so that if the stud turns while tightening it won't bottom out against the block. If the stud bottoms out and you keep tightening it then if could give you and false clamping force on the head or the stud can break.
I've installed quite a few sets of head studs in the past year, and I've never had a stud that was "properly" backed off a turn or so, that didn't immediately turn back in and bottom out in the block by the time torque on the nut above hit 75 ft lbs or so. I now just lightly snug all the studs to about 10 ft lbs or so and usually have very little stud movement during the torque process.

If you think about it, the top of the stud has the fine threads that will develop much more clamping force from a given torque than the bottom coarse threads. I also think a stud bottoming out on the threads that aren't fully cut puts less thread pulling force on the block threads than a fully tapped stud hole that bottoms out on the bottom of the block.

You don't commonly hear about thread failures so it probably doesn't matter how the install is performed as far as block thread failure.
__________________
95' 2wd Junker Drag Truck
1502 HP Fuel-Only 12mm P7100 Pump
SXE 472 over GTX55 116mm
OEM 12v Block
 
Old 04-12-2016, 12:42 AM   #36
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
I checked the torque on all of the mains and rod cap bolts. Installed the oil sump pick up tube and then put the oil pan on. Once all the bolts were torqued, I sprayed it and the bolt heads with some gloss black. Next plan is to JB Weld the perimeter of all of the expansion plugs.

My original oil pump part number was superceded by the later pump #4939587. Running with it.

Click the image to open in full size.

New block heater.

Click the image to open in full size.

Keating rear plate.

Click the image to open in full size.

Bottom tapping the threads in the block was easier than I anticipated.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600

Last edited by jimbo486; 04-12-2016 at 12:45 AM.
 
Old 04-12-2016, 01:00 AM   #37
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
Forgot to mention that piston protrusion came to .024-.025" and valve recession is at least .045". Ryan at Hamilton says that a standard head gasket will be fine to run with the 182-214 cam and those dimensions. In fact, those numbers are right at the maximum and minimum for their cams to be 100% bolt-in for a 12 and early 24 valve (VP) engines.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
 
Old 04-13-2016, 03:27 AM   #38
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
Primed and painted the new head today with VHT. Rated for up to 2000 degrees.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

The cam gear was treated to a retainer from Hamilton.

Click the image to open in full size.

Applied JB Weld to the remaining expansion plugs; oil rifle and coolant plugs in the tappet valley, oil rifle and cam plug at the rear of the block.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

I also bought new rocker levers, thrust washers and retaining rings. New levers weren't necessary as the existing levers were fine but a new set wasn't that expensive. However, Cummins only had half of the retaining rings on hand so I'll have to wait until next week to assemble the remaining 3. All of the rocker shafts maintained the maximum specified diameter of .747".

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600

Last edited by jimbo486; 04-13-2016 at 03:32 AM.
 
Old 04-14-2016, 05:19 PM   #39
jimbo486
 
jimbo486's Avatar

Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
What are thoughts on Victor Reinz gaskets? Specifically, head gaskets. The rebuild kit came with a VR upper engine set. I'm all about Genuine Cummins for anything to do with a Cummins motor.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
 
Old 04-15-2016, 07:07 AM   #40
STROKETHISF350
 
STROKETHISF350's Avatar

Name: STROKETHISF350
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: HARFORD COUNTY MARYLAND
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,253
I use them at 800+ hp with no issues


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
06 ram 3500 CCLB dually l 100% fleece injectors l ppe dual fuelers l Hamilton 188/220 l 103# valve springs l ported & oringed head l arp 425s l he 351 over 475 built by me l efi live l fass l full billet 48re built by me
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:23 PM.

 


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2024, CompetitionDiesel.com
all information found on this site is property of www.competitiondiesel.com