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04-06-2018, 12:52 PM
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#21
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Name: 1972RedNeck
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Townsend, MT
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Signature600
What does the number of valves have to do with timing?
Chris
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Nothing - but piston bowl shape may, but I don't know.
__________________
1990 F350 4X4, Sterling 10.25, Dana 60, E4OD
4BTA, HX30W/H1C Compounds, 5X16 Injectors
Quote:
Originally Posted by longhorn859
Assemble, floor it.
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04-06-2018, 12:55 PM
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#22
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Name: J-Pipes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,575
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If you're planning on getting that extreme with timing, I'd guess go 24v since the injector is straight down, opposed to the 12v be slightly angled. But that's purely a guess on my part.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
__________________
2000 Dodge ext cab short bed, 6spd.
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04-06-2018, 01:48 PM
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#23
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Name: jlbayes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: michigan
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Signature600
What does the number of valves have to do with timing?
Chris
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The location of the injector to the bowl.
__________________
Jacob, 97 rclb
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04-06-2018, 01:53 PM
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#24
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Name: zfaylor
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: P-TOWN!, Indiana
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,024
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Buy a car or a common rail 2wd and drive it.
Having 400hp and trying to achieve the best fuel mileage possible out of a mechanical engine is so 2001.
__________________
2015 half ton heavy chevy
81 Fairmont LS project
Many yard ornament projects...
North American Turbo
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04-06-2018, 02:39 PM
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#25
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Name: Signature600
Title: THA MAN!
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbayes
The location of the injector to the bowl.
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My point was is that arbitrarily saying a 24v handles timing better or a 12v handles timing better really doesn't matter to anything. I can put 30* of timing in either and it will still run...or I can set them at 12* and it will run.
Either setup the timing is not the end of performance, or reliability, or economy. It's just one small part of the equation.
If you want economy, an 03-04CR with airflow mods will be pretty hard to beat...but, that's not what he wants. He wants to ask a question then tell everyone why they are wrong.
Chris
__________________
THANKS TO:
Tim Barber @ TRE Diesel
Jeff Mumau @ Mumau Diesel Service
Rip @ Source Automotive
Don Thuren @ ThurenFab Suspension
Columbus Diesel Supply
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04-06-2018, 09:00 PM
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#26
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Name: 1972RedNeck
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Townsend, MT
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Signature600
If you want economy, an 03-04CR with airflow mods will be pretty hard to beat...but, that's not what he wants. He wants to ask a question then tell everyone why they are wrong.
Chris
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Well, that got out of hand.
I tried to outline what I am going to do and then asked for advise on a couple points. Instead I am told I need to do X to get Y where Y is simply 400 HP. Yes, I realize I can get a good running take out 12V and make 400 HP. Yes, I realize that electronic tuning can trump simple old mechanical pumps. But I don't think that's what I asked.
I am going to do as I think I have done a decent job outlining. I could use advise on compression ratio as well as 24V vs 12V head from an efficiency standpoint and how the outlined compression ratios would work with each head. That, and a recommendation on camshafts would be great as well.
I'm sorry that I was not clear in my previous posts.
__________________
1990 F350 4X4, Sterling 10.25, Dana 60, E4OD
4BTA, HX30W/H1C Compounds, 5X16 Injectors
Quote:
Originally Posted by longhorn859
Assemble, floor it.
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Last edited by 1972RedNeck; 04-06-2018 at 09:02 PM.
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04-06-2018, 10:16 PM
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#27
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Name: Justappumped24v
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Illinois
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972RedNeck
Well, that got out of hand.
I tried to outline what I am going to do and then asked for advise on a couple points. Instead I am told I need to do X to get Y where Y is simply 400 HP. Yes, I realize I can get a good running take out 12V and make 400 HP. Yes, I realize that electronic tuning can trump simple old mechanical pumps. But I don't think that's what I asked.
I am going to do as I think I have done a decent job outlining. I could use advise on compression ratio as well as 24V vs 12V head from an efficiency standpoint and how the outlined compression ratios would work with each head. That, and a recommendation on camshafts would be great as well.
I'm sorry that I was not clear in my previous posts.
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24v head for better flow with a 24v piston I’d say 18:1 is as high as I would go or ring land damage will occur set timing around 21 22ish for decent manners and good fuel economy with a Hamilton towing cam 182 208 would be all you need.
__________________
05 QCSB24v HTD 6.8L, DDP fueling PDD shifted
2011 MCSB 6.7, built 68rfe
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04-07-2018, 07:57 AM
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#28
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Name: 1972RedNeck
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Townsend, MT
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justappumped24v
24v head for better flow with a 24v piston I’d say 18:1 is as high as I would go or ring land damage will occur set timing around 21 22ish for decent manners and good fuel economy with a Hamilton towing cam 182 208 would be all you need.
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Sounds like solid advice.
So to get there on compression ratio, I should start with a set of HO 24V pistons, correct? I think they are the 17.3:1 stock, aren't they? Or is there a set of pistons for a different 24V application that would get me closer without as much block work?
__________________
1990 F350 4X4, Sterling 10.25, Dana 60, E4OD
4BTA, HX30W/H1C Compounds, 5X16 Injectors
Quote:
Originally Posted by longhorn859
Assemble, floor it.
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04-07-2018, 09:34 AM
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#29
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Name: Justappumped24v
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Illinois
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972RedNeck
Sounds like solid advice.
So to get there on compression ratio, I should start with a set of HO 24V pistons, correct? I think they are the 17.3:1 stock, aren't they? Or is there a set of pistons for a different 24V application that would get me closer without as much block work?
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I think 04.5 to 07 24v pistons would be the highest stock compression but I’m currently traveling so my books are not in front of me. HO VP44 I believe are only 16.5:1
__________________
05 QCSB24v HTD 6.8L, DDP fueling PDD shifted
2011 MCSB 6.7, built 68rfe
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04-07-2018, 09:47 AM
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#30
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Name: Signature600
Title: THA MAN!
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justappumped24v
I think 04.5 to 07 24v pistons would be the highest stock compression but I’m currently traveling so my books are not in front of me. HO VP44 I believe are only 16.5:1
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That should be right. I think 17.2:1 vs 16.5:1
Chris
__________________
THANKS TO:
Tim Barber @ TRE Diesel
Jeff Mumau @ Mumau Diesel Service
Rip @ Source Automotive
Don Thuren @ ThurenFab Suspension
Columbus Diesel Supply
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04-07-2018, 10:42 AM
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#31
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justappumped24v
I’d say 18:1 is as high as I would go or ring land damage will occur.
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I don't see how you came to this conclusion, but this certainly would not be the case.
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04-07-2018, 06:29 PM
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#32
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Name: Justappumped24v
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Illinois
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
I don't see how you came to this conclusion, but this certainly would not be the case.
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Then go right ahead and correct me with a better answer 😂
__________________
05 QCSB24v HTD 6.8L, DDP fueling PDD shifted
2011 MCSB 6.7, built 68rfe
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04-07-2018, 06:30 PM
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#33
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Name: Justappumped24v
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Illinois
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,311
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Our lpg engines only run 20:1 it was an educational guess
__________________
05 QCSB24v HTD 6.8L, DDP fueling PDD shifted
2011 MCSB 6.7, built 68rfe
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04-07-2018, 06:58 PM
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#34
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Name: Highwayman
Title: bored.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Wacko
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,087
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I think this topic is way more scientific than it needs to be.
Also, there are plenty of info about “mileage monsters” on the old forums.
Dtr, bombers, etc have threads all over.
Mild VE 12v (or get the stuff to convert a 24v from sheid), 5+ speed, gear vendors, gears, and hit the road IMO. Play with timing later if you want.
__________________
97 Dodge 2500 RCLB ( scrapped)
1973 F250 crew (soon to receive new power train)
COMPD:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfreak24
Lolzzzzzz fakin haters
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Last edited by Highwayman; 04-07-2018 at 06:59 PM.
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04-08-2018, 09:20 AM
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#35
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justappumped24v
Then go right ahead and correct me with a better answer 😂
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So the steel ring lands in a factory cast piston can withstand enough cylinder pressure to produce 1200hp+ without issue but not an additional point of compression at 400hp will cause damage?
I'm not sure why you would need a better answer, it seems common sense would lead anyone to that conclusion. I swear every day I read crazier and crazier things on this forum.
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05-11-2018, 11:10 PM
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#36
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Name: 1972RedNeck
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Townsend, MT
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 93
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBoKX0e2Lzs
19:1 compression ratio, VE Pump, T4 64.5 SXE turbo that spools like an HX35 - apparently it can be done...
__________________
1990 F350 4X4, Sterling 10.25, Dana 60, E4OD
4BTA, HX30W/H1C Compounds, 5X16 Injectors
Quote:
Originally Posted by longhorn859
Assemble, floor it.
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