Is 2.5 a step back for pullers?

[pick017]

Originally Posted by Smokem

In my opinion the real solution to the 2.5" and 2.6" class is to go 3x3" smoothbore with air/water. The idea will most likely not be popular, but it would work, and you could purchase a used turbo that is competitive for under $3k. It isn't nearly as easy to jump to 3.0" from 2.6" as it is being made out to be, especially when the "latest" turbo is $9k.

I agree with smokem. Not a bad Idea.

[Smokem]

It would allow the guys who like to jump up from 2.6", and combining the classes would increase the remaining class size. No deckplates should be allowed, otherwise not much would change beside the class name. The 3.0" class could be renamed Pro Stock, and call the new class whatever you like.

Disclaimer; of course this is just my terrible idea, and I'm sure it will take a few more years of complaining before anything really changes for the better.

[CGD]

Originally Posted by Smokem

It would allow the guys who like to jump up from 2.6", and combining the classes would increase the remaining class size. No deckplates should be allowed, otherwise not much would change beside the class name. The 3.0" class could be renamed Pro Stock, and call the new class whatever you like.

I agree, there is only room for 3 classes in my opinion and as far as I am concerned 3.0 and Super Stock are perfectly fine. Whatever happens with 2.5/2.6 will be interesting for sure. Everything else can be left to brush hooks and rwyb classes.

Sent from My phone while the Boss wasn't looking.

[DodgeDude55]

Originally Posted by kjpcummins

This is what hurts sled pulling and any motorsports in general. Constant changing of rules.

I know multiple people that said the hell with pulling after all this rule change nonsense. I dont know what the solution to this is but changing the rule every year isnt doing anything but helping the guys already at the front of the pack because they are the only ones able to keep up money wise

[zeigler86]

i think 2.5 should be limited to a s3 frame. no bigger than t4, single pump, no side draft or individual runner intakes, single rear wheel, air to air i/c, no taller than 35 tires, still all factory optioned tcase and trans and diffs. need to emphasis on street class, means street drive able. all street equipment working, no hood stacks. no more than 4k rpm.
imho this will dial the class down and make it not so crazy expensive to be competitive. the rules need to be very clear with little to no "gray" area.
could also add has to be driven in not hauled in to kinda prove the street driven perspective.

[SmokeShow]

^ that bull**** didn't work 10yrs ago & won't work now.

People need to get the **** over the pipe dream of a truck coming to the pull from the farm field & winning when others will dedicate their truck to only pulling. It's nonsense & THAT mentality holds back diesel sled pulling more than anything IMO when speaking nationally.

[zstroken]

Don't put in rules that aren't easily teched....
and enforced.

[RockinRam96]

Originally Posted by SmokeShow

^ that bull**** didn't work 10yrs ago & won't work now.

People need to get the **** over the pipe dream of a truck coming to the pull from the farm field & winning when others will dedicate their truck to only pulling. It's nonsense & THAT mentality holds back diesel sled pulling more than anything IMO when speaking nationally.

I think your wrong. This could be made to work if the rules are enforced. I think all of his suggestions are easily teched except rpm. If there was an easy way to tech rpm I think I'd be a good idea.

I think again, pick one turbo for the whole class. Maybe not a certain model for everyone but how about limit it to an S300 frame? Turbo is to be teched at master tech and sealed. If the seal is broken at any point in the season your DQed.

Just need someone with a set of balls etching trucks that's not afraid to tell them their not pulling. It would only take standing up once or twice to prove a point!

[DodgeDude55]

Originally Posted by zeigler86

i think 2.5 should be limited to a s3 frame. no bigger than t4, single pump, no side draft or individual runner intakes, single rear wheel, air to air i/c, no taller than 35 tires, still all factory optioned tcase and trans and diffs. need to emphasis on street class, means street drive able. all street equipment working, no hood stacks. no more than 4k rpm.
imho this will dial the class down and make it not so crazy expensive to be competitive. the rules need to be very clear with little to no "gray" area.
could also add has to be driven in not hauled in to kinda prove the street driven perspective.

I strongly disagree with most of this. Limiting to an s300 charger will make the class more expensive as they wont even last a season most of the time. Limiting to a single pump also makes the class more expensive as the top guys are just going to drop the coin on large stroker pumps anyways and duals stock pump are much more reliable. Side draft should still be allowed as that will put the cummins at a disadvantage with not being able to port the intake side much at all. I agree with everything else other than rpm. Its hard to tech and a truck turning 5k can still drive on the street... it just wouldnt be reving out to 5k while its driving on the street

[nwpadmax]

We've been over this all a million times, but the simplest solution would be to:

- run whatever turbine wheel you want (nobody is going to tech it on a pickup anyway). This helps with the engine match from 5.9L to 6.7L CIDs.

- run a specific dimension compressor wheel (billet to increase reliability, if made correctly)

- use an inlet bushing that continually gets reduced every year by some small amount to keep the HP levels within in a generalized bracket. Cost to change $50/year max. Get rid of idiotic protrusion rules. Everyone would just have to understand that "2.5" may be "2.45" two years from now. No big deal, just call it a "inducer limited" street class and people just read the damn rules to know if they can pull or not.

- be very specific about the orientation and size of the MWE groove but keep it in there. (would not require a custom cover). The box stock Garrett and BW units are generally in the 0.120" to 0.140" width. Just pick a number that allows almost all stock covers.

Just keep the turbo rules simple (requiring minimum mods) and make the bushing do all the work. Bushings will work fine if you don't allow a bunch of tomfoolery with the MWE.

[baier513]

Interesting issues and ideas to say the least.

[zeigler86]

Whatever rules they need to be made crystal clear with very little gray area left and sticky enforced across the board. No bs. Chargers need to be teched with a plug. Very easy. If it goes in your out, if not your fine. Simple.

[ramtough01]

Originally Posted by zeigler86

i think 2.5 should be limited to a s3 frame. no bigger than t4, single pump, no side draft or individual runner intakes, single rear wheel, air to air i/c, no taller than 35 tires, still all factory optioned tcase and trans and diffs. need to emphasis on street class, means street drive able. all street equipment working, no hood stacks. no more than 4k rpm.
imho this will dial the class down and make it not so crazy expensive to be competitive. the rules need to be very clear with little to no "gray" area.
could also add has to be driven in not hauled in to kinda prove the street driven perspective.

Now this is what I think the class should be and would of loves a class like this when I started pulling

[ramtough01]

And there's ways to tech rpms pulling they do it on hot farm tractors running 3k rpm. Just have to put a pickup on the truck and have a plug in the back so can plug in the reader mounted on the sled

[kjpcummins]

This is how tech goes for the local hot farm and 466 class the ppl western series picked up for next year. Any tractors that get in the money get turbos teched. This isn't some inspection like trucks. The turbo is taken off the tractor compressor cover pulled and the compressor wheel and turbine is checked with calipers. This is done every pull and if you refuse you get dq'd and receive no money.

Ask yourself this. Why do most tractors run a smooth bore turbo. Could be that they have went through all this mwe bs before and it was much easier to go smooth bore in the long run. Same thing you see with driveline rules and gas trucks. If people really want to make these classes better ask some gas truck and tractor guys that have been around along time for their opinion. No reason the diesel trucks should have to continue to go through all the problems they have gone through years ago.

[nwpadmax]

I have no problem with tearing turbos down but it's a heck of a lot easier on a tractor than it is on a truck, especially the V8s. You'd be there all night. No one's going to do it.

[ComnRailPwr]

Originally Posted by nwpadmax

We've been over this all a million times, but the simplest solution would be to:

- run whatever turbine wheel you want (nobody is going to tech it on a pickup anyway). This helps with the engine match from 5.9L to 6.7L CIDs.

- run a specific dimension compressor wheel (billet to increase reliability, if made correctly)

- use an inlet bushing that continually gets reduced every year by some small amount to keep the HP levels within in a generalized bracket. Cost to change $50/year max. Get rid of idiotic protrusion rules. Everyone would just have to understand that "2.5" may be "2.45" two years from now. No big deal, just call it a "inducer limited" street class and people just read the damn rules to know if they can pull or not.

- be very specific about the orientation and size of the MWE groove but keep it in there. (would not require a custom cover). The box stock Garrett and BW units are generally in the 0.120" to 0.140" width. Just pick a number that allows almost all stock covers.

Just keep the turbo rules simple (requiring minimum mods) and make the bushing do all the work. Bushings will work fine if you don't allow a bunch of tomfoolery with the MWE.

Agree 100%.

[kjpcummins]

Originally Posted by nwpadmax

I have no problem with tearing turbos down but it's a heck of a lot easier on a tractor than it is on a truck, especially the V8s. You'd be there all night. No one's going to do it.

I dont have a duramax but the few local ones ive seen are not any different that pulling a turbo off a cummins. Its the same amount of clamps, bolts, etc. on a truck and tractor. If turbos arent going to be teched correctly whats the point in having rules.

I know it takes the exact same amount of time/difficulty to pull a turbo on a cummins compared to a tractor. Tractor tilt the hood and take side sheild off. Truck pop the hood, pull a couple bolts and the pass fender is off in the same amout of time. The duramaxs ive seen are the same way. It doesnt take much effort to set them up that way.

[nwpadmax]

Originally Posted by kjpcummins

I dont have a duramax but the few local ones ive seen are not any different that pulling a turbo off a cummins. Its the same amount of clamps, bolts, etc. on a truck and tractor. If turbos arent going to be teched correctly whats the point in having rules.

I know it takes the exact same amount of time/difficulty to pull a turbo on a cummins compared to a tractor. Tractor tilt the hood and take side sheild off. Truck pop the hood, pull a couple bolts and the pass fender is off in the same amout of time. The duramaxs ive seen are the same way. It doesnt take much effort to set them up that way.

And for mechanically inclined guys like you and me, we can make mounts and bolts in such a way that you can do this quickly. I even took a good ratchet wrench and bent the handle and kept it with the truck because it made stuff so simple.

However there are a lot of people who can't or almost flat out refuse to submit to such practices. And some of those folks are very loud because they pay big bucks to someone else to do all that for them so they can go to a pull and eat their fried oreos and do nothing else.

[Smokem]

Originally Posted by nwpadmax

- use an inlet bushing that continually gets reduced every year by some small amount to keep the HP levels within in a generalized bracket. Cost to change $50/year max.

Although I can agree to the idea, I think we both know it won't remain that simple, if there is a groove it will be exploited.

Originally Posted by zeigler86

Chargers need to be teched with a plug. Very easy. If it goes in your out, if not your fine. Simple.

This is only a fair way to tech if there are no grooves allowed.

Originally Posted by kjpcummins

Ask yourself this. Why do most tractors run a smooth bore turbo. Could be that they have went through all this mwe bs before and it was much easier to go smooth bore in the long run.

Simply put there is just no way to cheat a smooth bore 3x3" turbo. I can understand the truck guys originally wanting rules that weren't just a page out of the tractor pulling book, but hindsight is 20/20.