Daily Driver Timing... slow truck style

So, I've read pretty much every post in this forum (and greatly appreciate all the help on previous problems). I'm trying to figure out my issue, and I *think* it's a bit of a combo of crappy turbo and timing... but I want to focus on the timing part. I'll try to keep this short and too the point - so first - current setup of truck : 2001, 180 pump, 024 DV's, 4K GSK, #8 TST plate (from what I remember), 23* timing, airdog 150, stock 24V injectors, HX40, water injection. I've verified the timing a couple times by dial indicator. It starts great, even down to 0* - really it loves the cold - runs best in the cold mornings. On the freeway it'll get around 18mpg - tieing with it's best ever mileage at that speed.

So, the issue- not near the power I used to have (seat of the pants), high EGT's, same boost as before. Why I think it's mostly timing - I started off running the same 100hp Diesel Dynamics Extrude honed injectors I ran with the VP, and 19* timing - the thing was basically a dog - started, ran fine, just no power, VERY hot EGT's, typical Boost. I thought, wow, maybe the p-pump really puts that much more fuel out, I changed back to stock injectors, played around with AFC and plate, nothing really helped all that much. I thought maybe I'd bump the timing a bit after reading what some folks on here are running - set it to the above mentioned setup, and that helped quite a bit. It runs noticeably cooler, still hotter than it used to for how much it gets up and goes... also now above 2K RPM, it's got quite the bark out the exhaust - hard to explain, extra loud and raspy - sounds good, but different than it ever has sounded.

My assumptions / guess - it must not be really at 23*, as from what I've read on here, that should be a decent place to set timing... I'm tempted to bump it another 3 degrees or so, but I don't want to start destroying pistons. The other thing I've gathered is my poor old hx40 sucks... is probably not the most efficient, and is going to be a laggy pig with this setup... but in most all the above, I'm talking about once on boost... so I'm not worried about the lag right now. I'm almost ready to buy a timing light adapter... just to see what it says the timing really is :-/

Any suggestions? Am I kinda on the right track in thinking? I appreciate any input / thoughts.

Thanks!

I would start with a new turbo and a good set of injectors. 23* should have you in the ballpark. Double check it though, it could have slipped.

Hx40's cruise hot, it's just how they are.

So it sounds like you're thinking, timing should be good... the theory is that it's just that my injectors and turbo stink with the p-pump. As for the EGTs running too high, I'm talking about at WOT... max boost. It's doing what it's always done while cruising, that doesn't bother me at all. Is it worth trying to find a smaller exhaust housing for it? I *think* it has a 16cm... which I thought I'd read somewhere may be as small as it goes :-/

Thanks again for the help and other thoughts.

bartholins said:

So it sounds like you're thinking, timing should be good... the theory is that it's just that my injectors and turbo stink with the p-pump. As for the EGTs running too high, I'm talking about at WOT... max boost. It's doing what it's always done while cruising, that doesn't bother me at all. Is it worth trying to find a smaller exhaust housing for it? I *think* it has a 16cm... which I thought I'd read somewhere may be as small as it goes :-/

Thanks again for the help and other thoughts.

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Are you so or ho?

Id bump the timing up some more and def put in some different sticks.

SO here. So, here goes a couple stupid questions... back in the day when I built this thing up, the DD3's (those 100HP injectors) were pretty decent, what's a decent - and the cleanest ~100HP injector now? There's a LOT more people in the game it seems. And as far as heat vs boost vs performance... shouldn't the stock 24V injectors at VP popoffs be about as low heat as you can get? It's crazy to me that with stock injectors, 40lbs boost, and water / meth injection and I can bury the 1600* pyro. Also, another 3* maybe? Am I right in reading around 26-28* is going to be max before I start spraying out of the bowl?

For a point of reference, with the 100hp injectors, edge comp at about level 3, hx40, water/meth, I'd top out at about 1300* before running out of gears / room with the VP.

Thanks!

bartholins said:

SO here. So, here goes a couple stupid questions... back in the day when I built this thing up, the DD3's (those 100HP injectors) were pretty decent, what's a decent - and the cleanest ~100HP injector now? There's a LOT more people in the game it seems. And as far as heat vs boost vs performance... shouldn't the stock 24V injectors at VP popoffs be about as low heat as you can get? It's crazy to me that with stock injectors, 40lbs boost, and water / meth injection and I can bury the 1600* pyro. Also, another 3* maybe? Am I right in reading around 26-28* is going to be max before I start spraying out of the bowl?

For a point of reference, with the 100hp injectors, edge comp at about level 3, hx40, water/meth, I'd top out at about 1300* before running out of gears / room with the VP.

Thanks!

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Id just run the dd3's or some injectors from weston, pick his brain a lil while your at it. You'll learn a lot.

Something about the stock spray pattern might make them not run as cool as you'd like. I can remember the exact reason but that's close.

Also think you have a 180 with 024's, that's a lot of fuel for a 60mm charger.

Are you 100% its a 180 pump? If you timed it for 23 degrees on a 180, it'll be more like 16 on a 175 if thats what you really have. That being said, 16 shouldn't run poorly. Timing light would help you confirm your settings for sure.

Have your injectors checked out. If they are just dribbling fuel out instead of a proper spray, that will add to your issues.

Yeah, I was curious on the injectors as well, that's why I tried the stockers - they only had about 10K miles on them. Good to hear you think that may be quite a bit of fuel for the air I've got. Random question - what about a HX35 / HT3b combo with ~100 HP injector? still a decent daily driver / occasional towing setup? ofcourse then I'm in to more boost... and keeping headgasket from blowing :-/

Positive on the pump, just pulled throttle linkage to make sure - last 3 are 911. Also double checked timing 22.5 - 23*

Thanks again guys!

Get your injectors set to a ppump pop pressure, if pressure is set too high it will effectively retard your injection timing...

24vriviera said:

Get your injectors set to a ppump pop pressure, if pressure is set too high it will effectively retard your injection timing...

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Not enough to make it run that poorly. All my injectors have been at VP pressures with nothing like that. The amount of time it takes to go from 260 bar to 300 bar is very small, considering peak pressure is 800 bar or more.

Tate said:

Are you 100% its a 180 pump? If you timed it for 23 degrees on a 180, it'll be more like 16 on a 175 if thats what you really have. That being said, 16 shouldn't run poorly.

Timing light would help you confirm your settings for sure.

Click to expand...

Tate said:

Not enough to make it run that poorly. All my injectors have been at VP pressures with nothing like that. The amount of time it takes to go from 260 bar to 300 bar is very small, considering peak pressure is 800 bar or more.

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gotta use a light to determine where your motor is at x lift

chart is for reference only

changing dv or even just the seat will effect dynamic timing