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Old 03-03-2017, 05:08 PM   #21
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If your looking at a Cummins, I would defintley look into the 13+. You don't have to delete to get good mileage. I feel like the updated suspension on the newer trucks are worth a little extra coin and like someone else said, the exhaust brake function is awesome for towing, or even just driving empty.
I don't know if I agree with buying a tuned/deleted truck. It worries me about how it's been taken care of in the past.

I bought a newer truck because there is no way I was going to pay $15k-20k for a low mileage non rust bucket 2nd gen. A 20 year old truck for that much? No thank you. The base models of the new trucks are as nice or nicer than a 2nd gen Laramie.
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Tobin View Post
E and F load rated tires are more expensive than D load rated tires of the same size and half tons are spec'd for D rated while Es are required for most 3/4 and 1-tons and some new ones are even going to F rated tires...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Signature600 View Post
Old trucks have 16-17" tires....new stuff 18-20" mostly.



Chris


My rubber on my half ton 4th gen is 275/65/20 because it's 65 an not 60 it's a load range e tire. It's not limited to diesels.

I think the op stated he needed diesel. So he's prob better off to keep his old one an but a comfy cruiser for the family and be done.
 
Old 03-03-2017, 11:59 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodacious View Post
lol, I sorta agree with ya, but, for $55-$60k, I could have one very awesome first gen that would blow this new stuff out of the water.
Problem is, a bank won't finance repairs and I'm not in a place where I can drop $20K cash on a full restoration on the 12v. If they would, I'd have a 12v powered '74 quad cab D300 in a heart beat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwayman View Post
I've looked at it a few different ways.
New vs old:
less of a likelihood but more expensive repairs vs more little simple stuff.
Dealership work vs whoever you want
Warranty (possibly) vs

As much as I disagree with Jfaulkner's outlook on this stuff, it really does come down to how you value your time.

You know what has saved me the headache of dealing with these trucks?
Buying a car. I have absolutely no reason to daily a truck other than to look "manly". I've never seen the appeal of burning all of that fuel.
If you don't NEED one, put some cash in the 12v, let it sit until you need it, and drive a sedan.
Already drive a beater sedan (have several to choose from), I put on 300-400mi a week just commuting, so the truck MIGHT get driven to work once a month if I get a wild hair. Otherwise the truck is there to tow and haul.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chevota84 View Post
If you get a newer one, get a brand new one. For what people are asking for 2-3 year old trucks, you can throw in another 5k and get one off the lot with better interest rates. On the flip side, the half ton Chevy and ford's are getting around 20mpg and have 7000lb tow ratings, turn the key and go.
For what people are asking for 5-7 year old trucks, I can pay nearly the same on a new one with my discount through work for half the interest rate. But if I would need to delete the truck immediately, then it might be worth spending a little extra to reduce the hassle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zstroken View Post
And factor in 3 gallons for an oil change, more expensive tires etc, etc.
I'm already spending that on maintaining the 12V, so no real change there. E range tires and 3 gallons of T6. Plus the gallon it uses between changes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zstroken View Post
Good advice, the best advice is ask "do I really need a diesel?" Most 1/2 ton gassers are getting near 20 MPG now, will go for 200K plus easily.

I have thought many a time about selling my 08 since I am lucky to put 2K miles a year on it, but I realize I need a truck and this one is paid for and has less than 85K on it. It should last me a good while.
Gasser is a no go. Reason 1: I tow too heavy. Race trailer (24' box) grosses around 8.5-9K, my buddy's 35' GN with 2 Farmall's is close to 14K. That's 70% of the truck's use so the MPG on a gasser towing is going to be abysmal at best. Reason 2: I don't know of any 1/2 ton gassers which offer a manual trans and call me bullheaded but I flat refuse to tow with an automatic.


The "do I really need a truck" conversation has been repeated ad infinitum and has always come back as a resounding "yes." The plan is, that if I get a new truck, it will probably be my last truck. I'm the type to buy something and run it until I can't fix it anymore. The 12V has lasted 23 years with many years of hard use and minimal maintenance. A garage kept, well maintained new truck should easily last 25-30 years. I'm also trying to future proof a bit. Long plan goal is to get a 32' toyhauler so that the wife and kids can tag along when I go racing without having to foot the bill for a hotel. But, no matter how much work I do to the 12V, it will never fit the whole family.
 
Old 03-04-2017, 12:02 AM   #24
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Why would you "delete it immediately "

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Old 03-04-2017, 07:05 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar440_6 View Post
Gasser is a no go. Reason 1: I tow too heavy. Race trailer (24' box) grosses around 8.5-9K, my buddy's 35' GN with 2 Farmall's is close to 14K. That's 70% of the truck's use so the MPG on a gasser towing is going to be abysmal at best. Reason 2: I don't know of any 1/2 ton gassers which offer a manual trans and call me bullheaded but I flat refuse to tow with an automatic


I tow heavy...Please.


Sounds like your mind is made up, what was the point of this thread?

Anyone who deletes a brand new truck just because they feel they have to stick it to the government, or whatever other made up problem they have, is dense. Deletes have a purpose, and a reason...

Good luck with your truck decision.
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Old 03-04-2017, 07:16 AM   #26
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Yeah, that's not too much for a gas truck, but you can't get a manual transmission in one. If/when I get to the point of a new truck, I just don't think I can stomach the diesel being an ~8k option. I've driven a few 6.4 hemi rams, I really liked them, fuel millage appeared to be on par with my current truck, and definitely didn't lack power. I'd consider a half ton, but a 32' dual tandem rated at 25k is just too much for them I feel. Probably a bit much for my current truck as well, but it's been payed for for a while!

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Old 03-04-2017, 07:19 AM   #27
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The only negatives to a new truck is unknown reliability and longevity. So you want to delete it right away and remove all warranties?

x2 on this thread not being needed. You won't update an old truck, have to have a diesel, has to be manual. That leaves what one truck in the nation?
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Old 03-04-2017, 07:19 AM   #28
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Just get the 4th gen crew or mega if you plan on hauling the fam around between races, You will not regret it. Delete it whenever you have the cash, you will love it!

Also, lets face it, nothing beats a 12v for simplicity and reliability. You can already forget comparing anything to that because you will be disappointed. The days of <$100 fixes for stupid problems are unfortunately gone.
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Old 03-04-2017, 09:39 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstacks95 View Post
Just get the 4th gen crew or mega if you plan on hauling the fam around between races, You will not regret it. Delete it whenever you have the cash, you will love it!

Also, lets face it, nothing beats a 12v for simplicity and reliability. You can already forget comparing anything to that because you will be disappointed. The days of <$100 fixes for stupid problems are unfortunately gone.
Now a days a vehicle is lucky to leave my bay with a minimum of 100$ diag charge.
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Old 03-04-2017, 09:42 AM   #30
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So you tow heavy...

And you're worried about economy and emissions.

Our bucket truck, grossing 16k lbs, is a F450 driven by a guy who flat foots it everywhere. Constantly lets it idle, 70mph, floors is everywhere. Gets an honest 11mpg.

It's a V10 too.

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Old 03-04-2017, 10:43 AM   #31
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I just bought an 11 2500 and I love it. Light years ahead of the old 2nd gen. You just have to look around for a good deal. When I was looking there were several G56 trucks for around 20k. I agree, you need to drive one and your mind will be made up. All the features are great and with efi, you can diagnose and data log to do your own repairs.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:49 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevota84 View Post
Why would you "delete it immediately "
Going purely off of what I've seen and heard with regard to the emissions trucks, these are the reasons I've heard the most. Not saying I agree, I'm just trying to sort out fact from BS.

Economy?: On my last trip with the 12V towing the 24' box, it pulled down 15.7mpg but I've heard more than a few 07+ owners complaining of 10-11mpg towing. If a new truck won't attain the same mileage or better off the lot, but will deleted, it may be worth it long term in the cost of fuel alone. Because new trucks don't get a mileage rating, I have to baseline off of what others are seeing from their trucks.

Reliability?: This one is a bit of a double edged sword. Most of the failures I've heard about on the new trucks have been related to the emissions equipment. So, in theory, a delete would eliminate some source of failures but the warranty on the rest of the truck would be lost. I worked for a large construction equipment manufacturer during the emissions regulations implementation and saw the issues with the DPF and DEF systems firsthand. The automakers may have figured it out by now, and if they did, so be it, I'd just drive the truck.

Performance?: I've heard several members here make comments about the 13+ trucks (manual transmission specifically due to the derate) to the effect of "it's the slowest 350hp I've ever driven" or "if I hadn't been able to tune it, I would have sold it."

All of the things that I've seen and heard may very well just be benchracing or complaining because of buyer's remorse but its hard to figure that out without at least asking the question.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Signature600 View Post
Sounds like your mind is made up, what was the point of this thread?

Anyone who deletes a brand new truck just because they feel they have to stick it to the government, or whatever other made up problem they have, is dense. Deletes have a purpose, and a reason...
Mind is definitely not made up. I could easily keep the 12V and repair it, but that's a bit of a "nothing ventured, nothing gained" situation. The truck might be a more reliable but still won't fit the family. I could pick up a 3rd gen or early 4th gen but finding one that hasn't been beaten to death or is priced anywhere close to reasonable is frustrating at best. Or I can buy brand new off the lot but I'd like to get some data and actual input from those who own or have owned the 13+ trucks. I'm just trying to figure out what makes the most sense.

Just for my edification, what would you say is the purpose and reason for a delete, if not for one or all of the above reasons?


Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Pipes View Post
Yeah, that's not too much for a gas truck, but you can't get a manual transmission in one. If/when I get to the point of a new truck, I just don't think I can stomach the diesel being an ~8k option. I've driven a few 6.4 hemi rams, I really liked them, fuel millage appeared to be on par with my current truck, and definitely didn't lack power. I'd consider a half ton, but a 32' dual tandem rated at 25k is just too much for them I feel. Probably a bit much for my current truck as well, but it's been payed for for a while.
I've towed an 18' 5K trailer with my father-in-law's 2012 CCSB 5.7L 1500 and there have been several times that I felt like it couldn't figure out what gear to be in or didn't have enough power and that was AFTER he had to have the transmission rebuilt. That said, it works for his situation, the truck is his daily driver and he only needs to tow the trailer about 4 times a year but when he does its single digit MPG. The other plus to a manual is that I can rebuild one in my sleep if and when that time ever comes. Automatics are witchcraft.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zfaylor View Post
The only negatives to a new truck is unknown reliability and longevity. So you want to delete it right away and remove all warranties?

x2 on this thread not being needed. You won't update an old truck, have to have a diesel, has to be manual. That leaves what one truck in the nation?
If I get a new truck I don't want to do anything more than put air in the tires and change the oil until its paid off. What I'm asking is whether people have had so many problems with the emissions systems and/or legitimate lack of power that they felt it necessary to delete or whether guys are just doing it because they're compensating or they wanna oral the coal.

Also, never said I wouldn't repair the existing truck, I love this thing, always have. It's just gotten to the point that the annual cost of repairs plus my time is getting very near the cost of a truck payment. If there are major issues with the emissions trucks, I'll either keep the 12V or get a <2007 crew cab truck and handle repairs as needed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstacks95 View Post
Just get the 4th gen crew or mega if you plan on hauling the fam around between races, You will not regret it. Delete it whenever you have the cash, you will love it!

Also, lets face it, nothing beats a 12v for simplicity and reliability. You can already forget comparing anything to that because you will be disappointed. The days of <$100 fixes for stupid problems are unfortunately gone.
The family haulers are the wife's nice cushy Acura and my beater Subaru wagon so between events isn't a problem. But if I want to take the wife and kids with me to an event or we need to bring back a bedroom set from my in-laws' at Thanksgiving (most recent example), we're automatically taking two vehicles. A 4 door truck would knock it down to one.

While I agree that the 12V is very literally the most reliable engine I've personally ever owned, I haven't fixed anything on this truck for <$100 in years. The engine just keeps on going but I'm just waiting for the day it leaves the rest of the truck behind.
 
Old 03-04-2017, 10:59 PM   #33
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2012+ trucks should do high teens for mileage. I wouldn't even consider a manual in a new truck. The new autos, especially the Ford and Gm, work really well.

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Old 03-04-2017, 11:20 PM   #34
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Don't really see a whole lot of fault with your thinking, and will say that I too prefer a manual transmission, and was very disappointed that you can't get a 6.4hemi 6spd combo. If you do check gas out, I wouldn't even look at the 5.7, just no replacement for displacement! One of the guys I pull tractors with uses an 8.1L GMC, and hooks upto around 25k gross trailer weight on occasion. Now the mileage does kinda suck on his truck, the last time I seen the numbers crunched on the Rams, you'd be around 200k miles before the slightly better fuel millage savings broke even with the extra cost of the truck for a diesel.

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Old 03-05-2017, 01:16 AM   #35
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Fuel mileage and new trucks towing are a joke.
The second I hook my 6.7 Cummins to a trailer... it's 8-10mpg. 11 tops, and 14 tops empty.
Phuck a 68fre.
I've heard impressive things out of that new big cubic inch Ford gas engine.
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There really is nothing better than OEM. That goes for anything from turbos to boobs.
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Old 03-05-2017, 01:48 AM   #36
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You throw $55k at a first gen and you'll be broke and have a truck worth $15k. It's no different than people remodeling old houses. Burn through cash and still have an old house with old house issues. Everything has a useable life.
You know you are wrong with this statement. You do know that, correct? You are just doing some more of your like in my other posts.

Quote:
The emissions equipment on the new trucks costs more than a basic first gen on the showroom floor. Our tax dollars went to develop the technology. You pay again for the tech when you buy the truck. The injectors fire at least four times as much as a 12 valve and cost six times as much.
Wow, you know I made this comment on another post a year or two ago and I didn't even get a slap from Jfaulkner. Does it even show up on the screen? Do you not feel duped as an American when you see a statement like this?

The elephant in the room none of us want to even come close to mentioning is that any day, ANY DAY, all of us that have spent hard earned dollars deleting away the stuff that our tax dollars paid for, will have to spend 2x that amount putting the crap back on or you will leave your $60-70k truck setting out beside the old first gen you didn't fix up.

Go ahead and copy and paste the above statement. Paste it some where you wont forget. I promise you will be reading it again.

...and you can ask my wife and kids, I hardly ever make promises.
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Old 03-05-2017, 06:27 AM   #37
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You know you are wrong with this statement. You do know that, correct? You are just doing some more of your like in my other posts.



You can believe whatever you want but we see this with semi's all the time. Guy dumps piles of cash in a 1990's truck with 2mil miles. He lists it on Truckpaper for a ridiculous amount of money and is dumbfounded when guys offer 1/2 what he is asking.

He thinks his $10k truck is worth $40k because he put $30k in it. A bank won't loan that much on a 27yr old truck. And good luck finding the guy that wants an old truck with 2mil miles that is willing to write the check for it. Saying you will and actually doing it are two totally different things.

When all is said and done your left with a 30yr old hole you threw piles of cash in, all so you can say you didn't waste money on a newer truck. Unless you have a rare classic that people are willing to pay for (which first gen dodge trucks are not) it does not make financial sense.
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Flipping your mirrors up when you don't tow? That serves no purpose other than to let me know that you are a douche, from a distance.
 
Old 03-05-2017, 08:01 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRE View Post
Fuel mileage and new trucks towing are a joke.
The second I hook my 6.7 Cummins to a trailer... it's 8-10mpg. 11 tops, and 14 tops empty.
Phuck a 68fre.
I've heard impressive things out of that new big cubic inch Ford gas engine.
That's pretty much what I had been seeing for millage on the diesels, and guys regularly claiming around 17-18 for daily driving the 6.4 hemi, empty of course. And then both being in the 8-12mpg range towing. On the Ford engine, are you referring to the 6.2L? Family friend just bought one a few months ago, really likes it, good power, but not the best millage, think he said he'd been up arou 15 or so on the highway, but as a farrier, he usually around 10.

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Old 03-05-2017, 09:03 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by J-Pipes View Post
That's pretty much what I had been seeing for millage on the diesels, and guys regularly claiming around 17-18 for daily driving the 6.4 hemi, empty of course. And then both being in the 8-12mpg range towing. On the Ford engine, are you referring to the 6.2L? Family friend just bought one a few months ago, really likes it, good power, but not the best millage, think he said he'd been up arou 15 or so on the highway, but as a farrier, he usually around 10.

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In my trucks defense, I've done NOTHING to help mileage. Quad cab one ton with 6 285's and a steel flatbed. I'm sure those 2 things alone help tremendously.
It's deleted with efi tunes. You can't stop the truck towing, best towing truck I've ever been around but the mileage sucks.

I've not been around the 8 speed towing, but we have it in my wife's Grand Cherokee and I love that thing.
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There really is nothing better than OEM. That goes for anything from turbos to boobs.
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Old 03-06-2017, 11:26 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram12vcummins View Post
My rubber on my half ton 4th gen is 275/65/20 because it's 65 an not 60 it's a load range e tire. It's not limited to diesels.

I think the op stated he needed diesel. So he's prob better off to keep his old one an but a comfy cruiser for the family and be done.
The aspect ratio (the 65 in your size description) does not correlate to the load range of the tire. I am surprised that a 1/2-ton truck would have Load Range E tires, I suspect someone put the wrong tires on it at some point... Look at the door placard or owners manual to confirm... I guess with the new tow ratings they are putting on 1/2-ton trucks they may run E tires to meet the ratings though...
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