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03-20-2019, 05:19 PM
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#1
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Name: rattlinrotary
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Andover, Illinois
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 9
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Ticking Time Bomb Build Thread
Alright so I've decided to make a build thread in hopes to get some solid tips/knowledge on what I can improve in my setup to make BIG power on fuel only (however i'm not opposed to giving it a bit of nitrous from time to time). I'm far from an expert so ANY input at all would be great! This started out as my first vehicle and was originally going to be a daily driven truck but that idea has been completely sidelined and it's only going to be used for fun to go to car shows/dyno events and whatnot. It's a 100% stock appearing '91.5 2wd first gen that I hope to spank any new truck with I see on the road.
Fuel:
14mm VE built by Guenther Heritage Diesel
3800 rpm governor spring
The Hungry Diesel Fuel Pin
S&J "Hot Screw"
Timing @ 24*
7x.014 injectors
Braided AFC Line
Airdog II-4G 165 gph
Engine:
Hamilton 188/220 cam
24v lifters
Keating Machine Titanium Retainers & Keepers
150# Valve Springs
Decked & Fire Ringed Head
Hamilton Heavy Duty Pushrods
(KDP in trash can)
Steed Speed T3 non-gated manifold
Air:
The Hungry Diesel compound piping
63/68/.70 & 75/88/1.32 (both billet wheel)
Mishimoto 7.3 Intercooler
Custom 3" intake piping
AirRaid "Race Day" filter
Transmission:
Stock Getrag 360
South Bend single disc 13125-OFEK Organic/Feramic clutch
Diff:
72" Traction bars
Yukon Limited Slip (3.54:1)
__________________
1991.5 12v (2wd)
14mm VE, 3800 rpm gov., timing @ 24*, 63/68/.70 & 75/88/1.32 compounds, 188/220 cam, 7x.014 injectors, Airdog 165, South Bend Single Disc, Mishimoto 7.3 intercooler
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03-20-2019, 06:12 PM
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#2
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Name: Red Sleeper
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lone Star State
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Posts: 4,583
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You have plenty of air and fuel, so your limiting factor is the VE (surprise). If you must keep the VE, then an automatic lockup trans and drugs is your next alternative.
If you choose to p-pump swap, bring on the fuel and have some fun.
What power does the current setup produce?
__________________
Nick J
'14 Silverado LTZ 5.3 4wd
'05 Cummins QCSB 4wd 48re
'91 Cummins w350 5spd
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03-20-2019, 06:12 PM
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#3
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Name: RacinDuallie
Title: Black Sheep Racing
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Supporting Northeast Diesel Racing
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Posts: 17,369
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I'll be the first to say it........
P-pump it. And don't look back.
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03-20-2019, 06:21 PM
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#4
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Name: rattlinrotary
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Andover, Illinois
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Posts: 9
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I forgot to say that I’m sticking with the VE and the manual. Those are definitely staying.
I have no clue what this setup is making but according to the ol’ butt dyno it feels faster than my buddies 2wd regular cab 7.3 that’s putting down 512hp & 1009 ft lbs
Plan on having it on the rollers a couple times this year. Will definitely be at SDX with it this year
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
1991.5 12v (2wd)
14mm VE, 3800 rpm gov., timing @ 24*, 63/68/.70 & 75/88/1.32 compounds, 188/220 cam, 7x.014 injectors, Airdog 165, South Bend Single Disc, Mishimoto 7.3 intercooler
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03-20-2019, 07:25 PM
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#5
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Name: Red Sleeper
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lone Star State
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlinrotary
I forgot to say that I’m sticking with the VE and the manual. Those are definitely staying.
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Well then learn to live with the limited power and fuel you currently have. Nitrous will be your friend from here on out.
As RD said, p-pump it.
__________________
Nick J
'14 Silverado LTZ 5.3 4wd
'05 Cummins QCSB 4wd 48re
'91 Cummins w350 5spd
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03-20-2019, 07:30 PM
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#6
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Name: rattlinrotary
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Andover, Illinois
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 9
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Staying a true 1st gen is my number 1 priority. A 5-600 hp VE truck in my opinion is way cooler than an 800hp+ P pumped truck
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
1991.5 12v (2wd)
14mm VE, 3800 rpm gov., timing @ 24*, 63/68/.70 & 75/88/1.32 compounds, 188/220 cam, 7x.014 injectors, Airdog 165, South Bend Single Disc, Mishimoto 7.3 intercooler
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03-20-2019, 08:14 PM
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#7
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Name: RacinDuallie
Title: Black Sheep Racing
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Supporting Northeast Diesel Racing
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlinrotary
Staying a true 1st gen is my number 1 priority. A 5-600 hp VE truck in my opinion is way cooler than an 800hp+ P pumped truck
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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it will be cool til you get tired of p pumped trucks leaving you behind.....
__________________
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03-20-2019, 08:20 PM
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#8
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posts: 4,396
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I say keep the VE, that light truck can be quick at 500hp.
How does it run now? You have plenty of air, does it drive the chargers hard enough?
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03-20-2019, 08:31 PM
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#9
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Name: rattlinrotary
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Andover, Illinois
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Posts: 9
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Well as of right now it’s making 50psi and the exhaust almost completely clears up at high rpm. Kinda thinking I need different injectors..maybe some different pump tuning. Attached I have examples of how much it cleans up (and no I’m not keeping the hood stack for those wondering)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
1991.5 12v (2wd)
14mm VE, 3800 rpm gov., timing @ 24*, 63/68/.70 & 75/88/1.32 compounds, 188/220 cam, 7x.014 injectors, Airdog 165, South Bend Single Disc, Mishimoto 7.3 intercooler
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03-20-2019, 08:57 PM
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#10
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,396
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Well I cant help you none on the VE side.
But a s475 with a 1.32 housing may not be the best match. Dial the turbine and housing back
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03-20-2019, 08:59 PM
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#11
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posts: 4,396
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What rpm where you at in the pic with clean exhaust?
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03-20-2019, 09:01 PM
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#12
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Name: smokinVE
Title: $$+VE=NO HP
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Desart
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,731
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Is your VE “pinned” on timing advance like some of the other 14mm VE’s out there? I ask because you say 24* of timing, or is that total advance? Are you monitoring case pressure in the VE?
I’ll say I think your cam is too big for our RPM limitations.
Weston would be the guy I’d call about some bigger injectors.
145 or 155 pistons?
I like your style man, but I stopped counting broken inputs on the ol Rags. It’s your rig but if you really want to stay with a hand shaker I’d jump **** to at least a 4500, it’s a simple swap in our trucks.
Post some videos of this old gal on YouTube and get us a link.
__________________
93D350, VE powered, slow but reliable:-))
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc
I don't think they let hair sniffer twit much. Or the little gay guy. Only the Indian does.
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03-20-2019, 11:02 PM
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#13
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Name: Big Blue24
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cedar City, UT
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 6,310
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You need more fuel period!!! I'm not a VE expert so I won't comment on case pressure and such on how to extract that last 15HP from the VE. I will comment on your injectors though. We've never seen big power numbers with 7 hole injectors on a 12v. They always fall on their face in the 2600+ RPM range.
On the injectors, we usually see the best power numbers on a 12mm P-pump with 5x022. I'm guessing your 14mm VE pump could have similar injection rate to a 12mm P-pump so I'd think something like 5x020" to 5x022" would work well.
When chasing HP, if the truck has enough air to "clean up" like yours does in the picture, we always see gains with extensive needle work and lift mods to the injectors. These mods coax more fuel out of the injectors at the expense of idle haze and occasionally a lope at idle. You gotta pay to play so to speak on the injectors meaning you'll pay a smoke and driveability penalty with the heavy needle work, but it will pick up power "when there is additional airflow to burn the extra late/poorer injection quality fueling".
Another way to get more "fuel" into that engine setup is water/methanol injection with a heavy 50% to 70% methanol mixture. Lots of methanol is hard on the head gasket so try to spray it at higher RPM ranges if possible to help lessen the low-end torque hit.
__________________
95' 2wd Junker Drag Truck
1502 HP Fuel-Only 12mm P7100 Pump
SXE 472 over GTX55 116mm
OEM 12v Block
Last edited by Big Blue24; 03-20-2019 at 11:03 PM.
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03-20-2019, 11:36 PM
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#14
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Blue24
These mods coax more fuel out of the injectors at the expense of idle haze and occasionally a lope at idle. You gotta pay to play so to speak on the injectors meaning you'll pay a smoke and driveability penalty with the heavy needle work.
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To the degree of needle lift that is reliable in a street driven application, I have seen no ill effects regarding idle quality and haze.
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03-21-2019, 12:34 AM
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#15
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Name: DieselheaD
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,731
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that is a beautiful ride, dream 1st gen daily driver truck - hoodstack and 5speed
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03-25-2019, 04:40 PM
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#16
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Name: JQmile
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 6,976
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Awesome build man! Glad to see your 14mm is living. When they made the pump, they could have set it up so the fuel tapers off real fast at high rpm, that's how mine is. VE pumps are grunt pumps I try to make the powerband about 2,000-2,800rpm. Make sure your AirDog has the pressure bumped up to 30psi to keep the 14 alive, and also check to see if your front seal has been loctited. I have 5x25 injectors from Scheid and like em, but they weren't cheap. Your compounds should be making more than 50 psi, so you may be onto something with the more fuel. The 57mm/71mm setup on my second gen that made 600rwhp made 65psi.
__________________
89 Dodge 972rwhp on the hose, still a VE!
Last edited by JQmile; 03-25-2019 at 04:44 PM.
Reason: Missed compounds lol
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03-25-2019, 04:46 PM
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#17
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Name: JQmile
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 6,976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Blue24
Another way to get more "fuel" into that engine setup is water/methanol injection with a heavy 50% to 70% methanol mixture. Lots of methanol is hard on the head gasket so try to spray it at higher RPM ranges if possible to help lessen the low-end torque hit.
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I agree on the w/m...should pick up 50-70hp I think at least. For some reason they pick up more on compounds....
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89 Dodge 972rwhp on the hose, still a VE!
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03-25-2019, 04:51 PM
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#18
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Name: JQmile
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 6,976
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Also, do a quarter mile run on a Gtech or one of those phone apps (they're not great, but close)....even if your ET sucks, the weight of the truck and your trap speed should give a pretty good indication of power if you can't get on a dyno soon.
__________________
89 Dodge 972rwhp on the hose, still a VE!
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03-26-2019, 03:43 PM
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#19
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Name: 12vchevydually
Title: my mind is churnin!
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jacksonville,FL
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JQmile
Awesome build man! Glad to see your 14mm is living. When they made the pump, they could have set it up so the fuel tapers off real fast at high rpm, that's how mine is. VE pumps are grunt pumps I try to make the powerband about 2,000-2,800rpm. Make sure your AirDog has the pressure bumped up to 30psi to keep the 14 alive, and also check to see if your front seal has been loctited. I have 5x25 injectors from Scheid and like em, but they weren't cheap. Your compounds should be making more than 50 psi, so you may be onto something with the more fuel. The 57mm/71mm setup on my second gen that made 600rwhp made 65psi.
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I have always said with a VE if the turbos aren't singing by 1800rpm your at a loss. The one thing a VE can do is fuel great down low. My twins light pretty fast and make a around 70lbs on a 12mm pump with 6x16's. The harder you load them the more they fuel.
__________________
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04-07-2019, 02:48 AM
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#20
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Name: j.fondler
Title: Slow Learner
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SD/TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12vchevydually
I have always said with a VE if the turbos aren't singing by 1800rpm your at a loss. The one thing a VE can do is fuel great down low. My twins light pretty fast and make a around 70lbs on a 12mm pump with 6x16's. The harder you load them the more they fuel.
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Unless you have a VE still making 250cc+ At 4000rpm.
It’s a niche market and it won’t be overly popular here because we get excited about 500hp, but there’s been 2 12mm VE trucks make 500+ uncorrected in the last year. The only 2 I know of.(here comes smokinve on his jackstands)
__________________
51 F5 - 93 w250 chassis - VE/47rh/np205
67 d100 - 89 d350 srw chassis - VE/a518
93 w250 - VE/47rh/NP205 - BAJA!!!!
12 3500 - studZ, deleteZ, tuneZ
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