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01-10-2018, 06:00 PM
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#1
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Name: Smiranti
Title: Rookie
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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Timing 180 degrees off?
Is it possible for the timing to be off 180 degrees while the motor is pinned at TDC on compression stroke cly 1 and the pump pinned also? It’s a 96 so in theory it should be at 14 degrees BTDC. I had pulled the pump off While the motor was out of the truck to do a tappet cover. When i went to pull it off i pinned the motor and the pump pin wasn’t in line. (Figured it either slipped or the truck was timed previously) So i unpinned the cam pin and turned the motor over until i was able to pin the pump. Pinned the pump, took it off. And put the motor back on TDC. Truck doesn’t want to start. Doesnt even try. I have 40 psi of fuel pressure and fuel going to every injector. She just cranks and smokes. Even have smoke coming out the the intake. I’ve been told if the pump is pinned and the motor is pinned then the pump can not be 180 out. ( Yes i know the timing pins aren’t accurate but it’ll get me close enough to get this thing running. I’m not keeping it at 14 degrees)
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01-10-2018, 06:02 PM
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#2
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Name: 95cummins5.9
Title: Old man ***** gossiper
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Posts: 4,720
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Possible it slipped if you didn't clean the tapered shaft and torque to 175 ftlbs.
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01-10-2018, 06:08 PM
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#3
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Name: Smiranti
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
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Posts: 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95cummins5.9
Possible it slipped if you didn't clean the tapered shaft and torque to 175 ftlbs.
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Pump pin and cam pin are still aligned
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01-10-2018, 06:12 PM
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#4
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Name: 95cummins5.9
Title: Old man ***** gossiper
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
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The timing pin in the pump could be bent I suppose.
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01-10-2018, 06:15 PM
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#5
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posts: 4,412
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What stood out is you couldn't align the pins before you removed it. Pull #1 valve cover and rotate the engine till the intake valve fully closes. Even better if you pull the injector and put a wooden rod or something and feel the piston for top travel. Then put the pump on pinned. Not exact but will be close enough to run.
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01-10-2018, 06:16 PM
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#6
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Name: 95cummins5.9
Title: Old man ***** gossiper
Status: Not Here
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Number 3 intake valve will be fully open, spring compressed at tdc #1 also is good indicator.
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01-10-2018, 06:17 PM
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#7
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
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If you want to know absolute tdc I'd be happy to explain.
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01-10-2018, 06:17 PM
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#8
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
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Posts: 4,412
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To op not 95cummins
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01-10-2018, 06:25 PM
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#9
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Name: 95cummins5.9
Title: Old man ***** gossiper
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: U.S.A
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Posts: 4,720
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If he has a dial indicator and a magnetic base he would be in business.
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01-10-2018, 06:27 PM
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#10
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Name: Smiranti
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Posts: 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc
What stood out is you couldn't align the pins before you removed it. Pull #1 valve cover and rotate the engine till the intake valve fully closes. Even better if you pull the injector and put a wooden rod or something and feel the piston for top travel. Then put the pump on pinned. Not exact but will be close enough to run.
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Correct me if I’m wrong. And i hope I am because that would explain everything. TDC on compression stroke for cyl 1 is both intake and exhaust valves on cyl 1 are closed and cly 6 valves should be at overlap point?
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01-10-2018, 06:33 PM
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#11
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Name: Inbred Inline
Title: Bastard child builder
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SE Michigan
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I have seen the governor rotate on the pump cam making the pin in the pump WAY off. Quite possible what you have going on, get number 6 on overlap and pull #1 delivery valve holder off the pump to see the plunger. it should be up at tdc on number one.
__________________
1994 Chevy RCLB C1500 6BT NV4500
2011 GMC CCLB 3500HD LML - STOCK
1992 Club Car, Kubota z430 "Inbred Inline Jr"
2000 Chevy CCSB C3500 3.0 Pro Stock 4x4 "Inbred Inline"-broken junk
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01-10-2018, 06:37 PM
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#12
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posts: 4,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiranti
Correct me if I’m wrong. And i hope I am because that would explain everything. TDC on compression stroke for cyl 1 is both intake and exhaust valves on cyl 1 are closed and cly 6 valves should be at overlap point?
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Just to keep it at absolute basics roll the engine over till #1 intake starts closing then after that the cam button goes in. That's tdc
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01-10-2018, 06:38 PM
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#13
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Name: Smiranti
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inbred Inline
I have seen the governor rotate on the pump cam making the pin in the pump WAY off. Quite possible what you have going on, get number 6 on overlap and pull #1 delivery valve holder off the pump to see the plunger. it should be up at tdc on number one.
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Now could installing governor springs have something to do with that? I installed 4ks awhile back
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01-10-2018, 06:43 PM
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#14
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Name: Inbred Inline
Title: Bastard child builder
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SE Michigan
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Posts: 370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiranti
Now could installing governor springs have something to do with that? I installed 4ks awhile back
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Doubtful since you didn't have the whole governor assembly removed from the pump cam Mine slipped on a 13mm ag governor pump, most good pump builders key the gov on bigger stuff. haven't seen it happen on a smaller setup but mine was injecting fuel on the exhaust stroke, would run on ether, wet stack like no other and make one heck of a flame thrower. now I always pull a DV and set it off port closure in the pump. then adjust my timing with the adjustable gear.
__________________
1994 Chevy RCLB C1500 6BT NV4500
2011 GMC CCLB 3500HD LML - STOCK
1992 Club Car, Kubota z430 "Inbred Inline Jr"
2000 Chevy CCSB C3500 3.0 Pro Stock 4x4 "Inbred Inline"-broken junk
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01-10-2018, 06:49 PM
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#15
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Name: 95cummins5.9
Title: Old man ***** gossiper
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: U.S.A
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Posts: 4,720
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It is possible that you lost the woodruff key to the shut off solenoid lever doing gov springs. That would let the lever slip on the shaft and the shaft not rotate to give you enough fuel to start, and just smoke.. also when you have installed springs a idle adjustment may be necessary, so try giving some pedal also.
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01-10-2018, 06:50 PM
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#16
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
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Yes gov springs outa whack will cause it, now that's what I think it is.
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01-10-2018, 06:54 PM
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#17
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Name: Smiranti
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
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Posts: 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inbred Inline
Doubtful since you didn't have the whole governor assembly removed from the pump cam Mine slipped on a 13mm ag governor pump, most good pump builders key the gov on bigger stuff. haven't seen it happen on a smaller setup but mine was injecting fuel on the exhaust stroke, would run on ether, wet stack like no other and make one heck of a flame thrower. now I always pull a DV and set it off port closure in the pump. then adjust my timing with the adjustable gear.
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Yupp mine runs on ether and i did have raw fuel in my 475 exhaust housing but i retimed it again and again and there is no more raw fuel. I’m gonna get a dial gauge on number 1 DV. The pump pins gotta be off then. I didn’t think it could slip like that
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01-10-2018, 06:56 PM
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#18
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Name: Smiranti
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc
Yes gov springs outa whack will cause it, now that's what I think it is.
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I did the gov springs a while ago and the truck ran perfectly fine for years after tho..
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01-10-2018, 07:00 PM
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#19
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Name: 95cummins5.9
Title: Old man ***** gossiper
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: U.S.A
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Posts: 4,720
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Look up the drop valve method for tdc.
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01-30-2018, 11:20 AM
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#20
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Name: tornado112
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Great Garden State
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Posts: 290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc
Just to keep it at absolute basics roll the engine over till #1 intake starts closing then after that the cam button goes in. That's tdc
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Yes and mark the dampner so you can spin 180 and do the rest
__________________
94 Regular Cab Intake 5x12 Contagious Injectors 4kGSK and 60lb springs Adjustable Pump Gear and Timing Cover Auto Meter Steering Box Brace Sphon Adjustable Trac Bar Sphon Sway Bar Links Vision 19.5 Michelin 265-75-19.5 MegaTREK
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