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Towing and Hauling Towing, hauling, hitches, and trailer discussion can be found here |
08-29-2017, 04:42 PM
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#41
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Name: CTDYoungGun
Title: Seth- Fuel Injection Guy
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kansas City, Mo
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRE
Are you positive on the not being able to haul that much weight on the hydro doves tails?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Signature600
10K lbs on the tail isn't enough? It all depends on where you put weight on the front...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 56cummins
the PJ states : Deck has 10,000 lbs lift capacity and 4,000 lbs hauling capacity from center point forward.
Its a 10ft tilt, so 4k at 5ft? How heavy is the back of a puller?
I really like your idea of lift/lower axles, you could adjust tounge weight or reduce drag/wear depending on load.
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This is what I found too, the dovetail is rated to lift 10k but only carry 4k at half the dovetail length. Seems like wasted trailer length to me...
__________________
Seth Farrell
Farrell Diesel Service
816-205-0757
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08-29-2017, 04:54 PM
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#42
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Name: J-Pipes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
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Posts: 4,575
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Have you looked at the powertail option PJ has? I think that's about the only thing I'd change about my trailer, but I bought it about 6 months before they brought that out.
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__________________
2000 Dodge ext cab short bed, 6spd.
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08-29-2017, 04:59 PM
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#43
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posts: 4,412
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How much does a rear of a pull truck weigh? Or a regular street 3500.
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08-29-2017, 05:24 PM
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#44
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Name: takedown95
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Posts: 2,841
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Couple of thoughts. The hydro dove will support the back end of a pull truck or a full size Kubota. I think someone mentioned you could fit two vehicles and a support vehicle in a semi trailer. My experience is unless you have a lift for the support vehicle you can't fit all three in a 53' trailer. Anything over 53' is illegal without a permit in some states. Lastly each pull truck is just a shade under 22'. Even if they are touching you'll be 4' over and that's also illegal in some states.
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08-29-2017, 05:32 PM
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#45
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Name: BRE
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southwest MO
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 12,705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Pipes
Have you looked at the powertail option PJ has? I think that's about the only thing I'd change about my trailer, but I bought it about 6 months before they brought that out.
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What is said option? I'm too lazy to look.
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__________________
Rick
07 Dodge 3500 - Tow mirrors, silencer ring MIA, Spectra air filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaulkner
There really is nothing better than OEM. That goes for anything from turbos to boobs.
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RIP Dex KCCO
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08-29-2017, 05:35 PM
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#46
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Name: J-Pipes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
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Posts: 4,575
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Looks like a regular dovetail trailer, with one full width self cleaning style, hydraulically controlled ramp. Can lay all the way over for full flat deck, or has bars to pin it "up" to leave vehicles loaded to the very end.
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__________________
2000 Dodge ext cab short bed, 6spd.
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08-29-2017, 05:50 PM
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#47
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Name: BRE
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southwest MO
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 12,705
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Just watched some youtube of that. I'm not sure there is anyway to have a trailer.
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__________________
Rick
07 Dodge 3500 - Tow mirrors, silencer ring MIA, Spectra air filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaulkner
There really is nothing better than OEM. That goes for anything from turbos to boobs.
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RIP Dex KCCO
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08-29-2017, 06:26 PM
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#48
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Name: CTDYoungGun
Title: Seth- Fuel Injection Guy
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kansas City, Mo
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Pipes
Have you looked at the powertail option PJ has? I think that's about the only thing I'd change about my trailer, but I bought it about 6 months before they brought that out.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
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I haven't seen that yet but I'll take a look!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc
How much does a rear of a pull truck weigh? Or a regular street 3500.
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Depends on the class but ballpark ~1000lbs give or take a couple hundred. I'd guess a street truck would be around 60/40 front to rear axle weight
Quote:
Originally Posted by takedown95
Couple of thoughts. The hydro dove will support the back end of a pull truck or a full size Kubota. I think someone mentioned you could fit two vehicles and a support vehicle in a semi trailer. My experience is unless you have a lift for the support vehicle you can't fit all three in a 53' trailer. Anything over 53' is illegal without a permit in some states. Lastly each pull truck is just a shade under 22'. Even if they are touching you'll be 4' over and that's also illegal in some states.
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Thank you! I was suspect of the two vehicles plus a support vehicle in a 53' trailer statement. I also didn't know about the overhang being illegal in some states. I just assumed as long as total length was under 53' you'd be ok. Good info!
To the guys hollering about the triple axle idea, don't forget they will be air lift and a remote actuator is easy to build in- meaning the front or rear axle can be quickly and easily lifted before you make a turn which saves the tire scrubbing and wheel bearing wear issues.
Seems like a sliding/ traveling axle is sounding the best. It would allow a range of axle placement for loading and transport and if done correctly should be a lot lighter than the twin frame idea. The deck would still tilt, but it would only need to hinge a few feet from the front so a lot of steel framework gets eliminated.
__________________
Seth Farrell
Farrell Diesel Service
816-205-0757
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08-29-2017, 06:34 PM
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#49
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Name: CTDYoungGun
Title: Seth- Fuel Injection Guy
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kansas City, Mo
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorneliusRox
Back to features. I turned and then welded on a solid steel post that some sealed bearings fit onto. Then I've got a steel hoist that slides onto it, the winch mounts onto that, and I even made a par to grab the other side of the trailer for really heavy loads. I can pick up and set down engines, wet logs, ATVs, etc... It's probably my favorite feature on my trailer.
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Have any pictures of this contraption? I think I follow what you're saying and it sounds neat
__________________
Seth Farrell
Farrell Diesel Service
816-205-0757
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08-29-2017, 06:41 PM
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#50
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Name: J-Pipes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRE
Just watched some youtube of that. I'm not sure there is anyway to have a trailer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Clarify please, can't decide if you're saying it's great idea, or terrible? I like it over the full hydraulic dove because they have so much more behind the axle, I worry about the tail swinging out and catching something in tight quarters, such as pits at a pull/race. Hell somewhere I clipped the back corner of mine on something, never did figure out what though, just enough to pop the corner light in and scuff the paint.
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__________________
2000 Dodge ext cab short bed, 6spd.
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08-29-2017, 06:46 PM
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#51
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Name: Blackmax123
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: central Pennsylvania
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tank21pa
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This is what I'm using. Bought it 36' with hydraulic disk brakes. It's a little heavier than I would be wanted but I love.
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08-29-2017, 06:49 PM
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#52
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Name: BRE
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southwest MO
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 12,705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Pipes
Clarify please, can't decide if you're saying it's great idea, or terrible? I like it over the full hydraulic dove because they have so much more behind the axle, I worry about the tail swinging out and catching something in tight quarters, such as pits at a pull/race. Hell somewhere I clipped the back corner of mine on something, never did figure out what though, just enough to pop the corner light in and scuff the paint.
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Autocorrect got part of my post. I love the idea. It was supposed to say, I'm not sure there is any other way to have a trailer.
I too don't care for the tail swing like you stated.
Also depending on your air setup as well as bags, your axles may not lift one or the other and carry itself to make turns easier.
For instance, on class 8 stuff (I know, not exactly apples to apples) when we have spreads a lot of us have dump valves on the rear to make tight turns easier. However unless you have an over inflate switch for your other axle, or a triple bag setup, they won't pick themselves up. It usually just drops the whole trailer. Keep that in mind if you go to build your own.
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__________________
Rick
07 Dodge 3500 - Tow mirrors, silencer ring MIA, Spectra air filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaulkner
There really is nothing better than OEM. That goes for anything from turbos to boobs.
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RIP Dex KCCO
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08-29-2017, 07:25 PM
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#53
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Name: 9724VF350
Title: Tractor Guy
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northeast Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Pipes
Have you looked at the powertail option PJ has? I think that's about the only thing I'd change about my trailer, but I bought it about 6 months before they brought that out.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
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That's pretty slick. The only thing that I think needs improved on ( I think, it's hard to see from the video angle I was looking at) is that the front of the ramp when folded down should reach farther forward to reduce the tendency to fold the ramp up when loading something heavy. I realize that the hydraulic system may help prevent that, but it's easier on parts if the ramp is designed to prevent it.
__________________
97 F350 4X4 CC Dually 5spd 24V 913 S300/HT3B Ranch Hand.
Playtoy-Oliver 1655. 12V now , 13mm, S475
Wife's ride-03 Excursion 12V swap in the works.
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08-29-2017, 08:48 PM
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#54
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Name: CTDYoungGun
Title: Seth- Fuel Injection Guy
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kansas City, Mo
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRE
Also depending on your air setup as well as bags, your axles may not lift one or the other and carry itself to make turns easier.
For instance, on class 8 stuff (I know, not exactly apples to apples) when we have spreads a lot of us have dump valves on the rear to make tight turns easier. However unless you have an over inflate switch for your other axle, or a triple bag setup, they won't pick themselves up. It usually just drops the whole trailer. Keep that in mind if you go to build your own.
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Yea we're on the same page. My dad's spread axle cattle pot was a dump only on the rear axle with no lift.
I'm still talking with a few different air suspension companies to make sure they offer what I want. The design I have in mind is a main air bag for axle down and a small air bag for the lift (4 bags per axle). The remote control I want would flip from air down directly to air up. I do need to verify that won't be an issue and that the ride height valves on each axle/ plumbing/ air tank capacity will respond quickly enough to keep the trailer height from dropping while quickly lift the 3rd axle.
I'd only want to dump air from the axles when stationary. I'd have a manual valve back on the trailer to dump the whole system. Hopefully that makes sense
__________________
Seth Farrell
Farrell Diesel Service
816-205-0757
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08-29-2017, 09:00 PM
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#55
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Name: BRE
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southwest MO
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 12,705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTDYoungGun
Yea we're on the same page. My dad's spread axle cattle pot was a dump only on the rear axle with no lift.
I'm still talking with a few different air suspension companies to make sure they offer what I want. The design I have in mind is a main air bag for axle down and a small air bag for the lift (4 bags per axle). The remote control I want would flip from air down directly to air up. I do need to verify that won't be an issue and that the ride height valves on each axle/ plumbing/ air tank capacity will respond quickly enough to keep the trailer height from dropping while quickly lift the 3rd axle.
I'd only want to dump air from the axles when stationary. I'd have a manual valve back on the trailer to dump the whole system. Hopefully that makes sense
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Yep I'm with ya 100%. Our front lift axles are setup to either be up or down, no in between. Then we have a manual full dump valve on the trailer at the rear for when unloading.
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__________________
Rick
07 Dodge 3500 - Tow mirrors, silencer ring MIA, Spectra air filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaulkner
There really is nothing better than OEM. That goes for anything from turbos to boobs.
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RIP Dex KCCO
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08-29-2017, 10:39 PM
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#56
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Name: takedown95
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTDYoungGun
I also didn't know about the overhang being illegal in some states. I just assumed as long as total length was under 53' you'd be ok. Good info!
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I know a lot of guys do it and I'm sure you'd be ok most of the time but coming back from Scheid a couple years back I got pulled over in Wisconsin for my Can Am sticking a foot past the dovetail. Didn't give me a ticket just a written warning.
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08-30-2017, 07:00 AM
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#57
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Name: 4x4dually
Title: Moderator
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Stillwater, OK
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 31,812
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Becareful if you pick a hydro-dove tail. Mine is a 30' (21' + 9'). You can load a 4x4 Dodge without dragging, but a 2x4 Dodge will drag the pivot..at least a factory 2x4 2008 mega cab dually will. I had to cross center with the front tires and lift the back of my buddies truck when it died. I would say the angle is way too steep to load vehicles all the time. Equipment...no issues...unless it is raining. I can't hardly get my 2wd JD4020 to climb mine in the rain. It is slicker than owl schidt unless you want to tack some cleats on it which I don't.
The PJ will be almost the same if that's what you are looking at. And look at the safety catch under the dove. The one on my trailer sucks. You can actually push "down" on the remote and it will bind for a second and then pop past the safety and start to drop. I'm going to redo it someday and fix it. I do NOT trust loads on my trailer on the dove. It scares me. I've tried to rework the safety catch with a grinder and welder twice. It is a horrible design and hasn't worked since day one. I took it back to the dealer once to work on right after I got it. They made it worse.
Last edited by 4x4dually; 08-30-2017 at 07:02 AM.
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08-30-2017, 12:03 PM
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#58
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Name: CTDYoungGun
Title: Seth- Fuel Injection Guy
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kansas City, Mo
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4dually
I can't hardly get my 2wd JD4020 to climb mine in the rain. It is slicker than owl schidt unless you want to tack some cleats on it which I don't.
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This brings up another feature I'm undecided on- decking. I'm definitely not going with a steel deck, I was leaning toward a rough cut lumber or that black wood lumber (the 2x8 with rubber inlay).
Any recommendations one way or the other?
__________________
Seth Farrell
Farrell Diesel Service
816-205-0757
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08-30-2017, 12:09 PM
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#59
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Name: 4x4dually
Title: Moderator
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Stillwater, OK
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 31,812
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I'd love to have the rumber type smooth flooring, but it is slick when wet and heavy as schidt. I put the cleated flooring in my stock trailer from Livestock Rubber Flooring - Shelby Trailer Service LLC
It's expensive but will last an eternity. But...it's heavy and will need more cross bracing...so that is out.
Wood is light but will need replaced every now and then. At least you can replace one board at a time. I dump my used motor oil out of my truck on mine and let it soak. Then after it dries for a week in the sun, I power wash the residual off so it isn't as slick. Board will last a long time like that.
Metal floor is great, but is also slick when wet...and you can't just wood screws something down to it in a pinch...as if you needed to lag bolt so tie downs in or something.
Do wood. It's cheapest and lightest....just make them use quality lumber and not some untreated pine crap like the cheap-o trailers. Rough cut oak would rock.
I'm rambling. I like trailers.
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08-30-2017, 12:41 PM
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#60
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Name: 06 DIESEL
Title: Dead Eye Firearms LLC
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Airville, PA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,122
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I put rough cut oak on my bumper pull trailer, while it was way heavier than the pine the factory had put on it I have never had any issue with slipping on the surface. Just treat it with waterseal once a year or so and it will last as long as the trailer. I tried the used motor oil, apparently mine is too dirty, even after baking in the sun for a week if I touched the boards I turned black.
__________________
Travis
My rig - 2021 Mega 3500 SRW
My Classic - 79 Chevy Silverado
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonA
Trucks are like women. Sometimes you just need to spend money on them to keep them happy.
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