cost of diesel emissions

turbo2387 said:
unbelievable. someone is getting rich and it sure isn't us.
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Yeah, exactly. It's just like you can't just get an actuator for a turbo since that is an EPA mandated part, you have to buy a completely new turbo. This used to be the case with DPF's. They wouldn't let you replace the flex joint on them. 2 years of political BS and you can repair them now. What BS.
 
Signature600 said:
Yes, absolutely...no Regen as we have no filter. Now, the small sub 80hp tractors have DPF with regen since it is less stuff for the operator/consumer. Also, on the little bitty engines, he have had ZERO issues with the DPF/Regen system EXCEPT the customers not being able to load them heavy enough to make them regen automatically, so we have to manually enable the regen.

Our Versatile tractors use Cummins engines with DPF and Passive regeneration only at the moment...I believe in the next few months those will be switching to SCR and DPF which will probably be a disaster since it's Cummins.


The only other product we have that does have a DPF is the Fendt tractor...Deutz engine with SCR and DPF, but I am not around enough of them to know exactly how much if any trouble they have....From talking to the customers and other dealers, it's very close to Zero. Fednt will not use it if it hurts their reliability, as that is one of their biggest selling features...they are high technology and still VERY reliable. I do know our good friends in Alberta do some deletes on their Fendt and MF tractors due to the cold weather...the DEF line heaters short out with a lot of use in cold weather, and when it's below freezing for half the years they have trouble with them...couple that with the fact that there are very few farmers with heated shops in Alberta, and they just delete them when they're new.


I sure hope we don't go back to LP in tractors...I don't want to have an LP tank...They did that crap back in the 50's-70's and they ran good, but logistically it had to be a real pain...

Chris
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We have DEF heaters go out all the time and create havoc all year. Not just winter. I loved how they put right on the label of DEF about how it won't freeze when it first came out. Right. Just give that a try and see how it works out. None of our road tractors park outside and the heaters don't work until the engine is running. So at least 3 of our trucks will not run on their own for longer than 5 minutes without a driver restarting them every 5 minutes until the DEF is thawed and can circulate. We only have 8 road tractors here and 6 of them are emissions trucks now) Usually I have to go down there and use a heater, warm the tanks up, and hopefully when they get to a long stop, they don't let them set for ever and freeze. I'm all for not retiring our old FLD's now! They should have just started restoring them. Haha
 
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Why does it have to be replaced just because of the wrong fluid into the exhaust? It can't "damage" the filters in there, as well as the DEF system should have known the DEF quality was incorrect as soon as it sucked some up.

That's my thing, these complaints don't add up...I've been down these roads, and the parts don't fail that easily...they're built to manage sustained temperatures in the 1400*F range...a little gas will junk them??


I'm not trying to argue, but it just doesn't add up why a little gas junked $10000 worth of metal parts...


DieselWrencher said:
We have DEF heaters go out all the time and create havoc all year. Not just winter. I loved how they put right on the label of DEF about how it won't freeze when it first came out. Right. Just give that a try and see how it works out. None of our road tractors park outside and the heaters don't work until the engine is running. So at least 3 of our trucks will not run on their own for longer than 5 minutes without a driver restarting them every 5 minutes until the DEF is thawed and can circulate. We only have 8 road tractors here and 6 of them are emissions trucks now) Usually I have to go down there and use a heater, warm the tanks up, and hopefully when they get to a long stop, they don't let them set for ever and freeze. I'm all for not retiring our old FLD's now! They should have just started restoring them. Haha
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See, that's a crap design on the engine manufacturer or builder. The EPA gives you a 45 minute window to no meet emissions on a cold start, in order to allow the tank and lines to thaw...if the engine shuts down before hand, that's all on the programmer. Ours will thaw a completely frozen tank in less than 20 minutes and go to work...If the on road guys aren't running a coolant loop into the DEF tank then they are retarded....DEF freezes at 11 degrees Fahrenheit!

Chris
 
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The sob story i got was the gasoline deteriates the presious metals some how within and they wont do what they ate suppose to do as well. So unless i replace i am playing russian roulette on if it will gut the filters within a few weeks once it starts working properly.
 
But because this dude is out of warranty i can sign my name on the line where i refused parts to he replaced due to customers judgment.
 
How old is the unit...don't know if it's industry wide, but according to my manufacturer, the EPA has mandated a 5 year warranty on all emission equipment...again, don't know about every manufacturer, but our stuff is, and I've used it. They would also try everything they can to deny it, so it probably wouldn't matter anyway.


I would call BS on the gas ruining the precious metals, but I understand putting your name on the line...I'd make that gamble on my name, but I get it. I put my name on the line all the time, it ain't fun sometimes.
Chris
 
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My whole gripe is look at the enormous strides we made in performance and emissions from the mechanical 5.9's to the common rails. It was huge! The stride taken sence the emissions junk have been nothing but expensive and counter productive as the engine development that was happening has now nearly stopped so we can build junk exhaust systems. We have had the same basic common rail system/injection now for 15 years. The exhaust systems are whats changing. Its at the very least is disappointing.
 
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DieselWrencher said:
We have DEF heaters go out all the time and create havoc all year. Not just winter. I loved how they put right on the label of DEF about how it won't freeze when it first came out. Right. Just give that a try and see how it works out. None of our road tractors park outside and the heaters don't work until the engine is running. So at least 3 of our trucks will not run on their own for longer than 5 minutes without a driver restarting them every 5 minutes until the DEF is thawed and can circulate. We only have 8 road tractors here and 6 of them are emissions trucks now) Usually I have to go down there and use a heater, warm the tanks up, and hopefully when they get to a long stop, they don't let them set for ever and freeze. I'm all for not retiring our old FLD's now! They should have just started restoring them. Haha
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What brand trucks? DEF injection is temp based. The engine shouldn't be shutting down.



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Signature600 said:
Why does it have to be replaced just because of the wrong fluid into the exhaust? It can't "damage" the filters in there, as well as the DEF system should have known the DEF quality was incorrect as soon as it sucked some up.

That's my thing, these complaints don't add up...I've been down these roads, and the parts don't fail that easily...they're built to manage sustained temperatures in the 1400*F range...a little gas will junk them??


I'm not trying to argue, but it just doesn't add up why a little gas junked $10000 worth of metal parts...




See, that's a crap design on the engine manufacturer or builder. The EPA gives you a 45 minute window to no meet emissions on a cold start, in order to allow the tank and lines to thaw...if the engine shuts down before hand, that's all on the programmer. Ours will thaw a completely frozen tank in less than 20 minutes and go to work...If the on road guys aren't running a coolant loop into the DEF tank then they are retarded....DEF freezes at 11 degrees Fahrenheit!

Chris
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I should have kept reading. This is exactly right, it's an implementation issue, not a system attribute.


I would demand proof that gasoline was injected, if it was, that's a system failure on the engine manufactures end. If the DOC didn't over temp, the claim is baseless. It's called a couple of things, but primarily an uncontrolled hydrocarbon thermal event. The gasoline should have never left the tank.


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I meant to say DPF.

The quality sensor failed. How far out of warranty is it?


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