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Old 07-30-2020, 03:28 PM   #1
musicims

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Is it possible to bend a rod hydrolocking with fuel

I made one final drive to my garage to swap out the injectors that I have been needing. They're not in terrible shape, just one that is causing a little lope at idle and some haze with it. Anyway I went to go hot start it after I cleared the garage to pull it in and it cranked over a couple then it stopped and sounded like a weird squish sound from the engine and the starter rolled back and quit. I tried cranking again and it cranked fine but would not start, I was not looking at rail pressure during cranking but I believe there was enough pressure. Gave it a few seconds and tried again and it fired up with a decent puff of smoke and wet soot belching out but cleared up back to normal.

Just off of speculation, I think that one, my problem injector, leaked down into the cylinder and it tried to hydrolock when I went to start it. I think that even though the starter sounded like it was kicked backwards the weird squish sound also makes me think that it compressed it and then got over TDC and pushed the starter further after the TDC compression. Is it possible to bend the rod in this situation? Does the starter have enough torque to overcome the cylinder pressure and actually bend parts?
 
Old 07-30-2020, 04:10 PM   #2
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The starter does not have enough torque to bend a rod.
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:17 AM   #3
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Any liquid can bend a rod since it can't be compressed, but we're talking about introducing that liquid into the cylinder at running speeds; a starter won't do it. You can scuff up a bearing if it's repeated enough times, but the rod won't care.
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Old 07-31-2020, 04:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
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The starter does not have enough torque to bend a rod.
Exactly.
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Old 08-06-2020, 08:59 AM   #5
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Is it possible to bend a rod hydrolocking with fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicims View Post
I made one final drive to my garage to swap out the injectors that I have been needing. They're not in terrible shape, just one that is causing a little lope at idle and some haze with it. Anyway I went to go hot start it after I cleared the garage to pull it in and it cranked over a couple then it stopped and sounded like a weird squish sound from the engine and the starter rolled back and quit. I tried cranking again and it cranked fine but would not start, I was not looking at rail pressure during cranking but I believe there was enough pressure. Gave it a few seconds and tried again and it fired up with a decent puff of smoke and wet soot belching out but cleared up back to normal.



Just off of speculation, I think that one, my problem injector, leaked down into the cylinder and it tried to hydrolock when I went to start it. I think that even though the starter sounded like it was kicked backwards the weird squish sound also makes me think that it compressed it and then got over TDC and pushed the starter further after the TDC compression. Is it possible to bend the rod in this situation? Does the starter have enough torque to overcome the cylinder pressure and actually bend parts?


I have heard some stuff of people bending rods but I mean personally I would feel like youíd hear it if you could crank it over pull injectors and crank it over. Had issues with my old power wagon and it hydrolocked 4 cylinders but didnít bend rods. Also agree that a starter doesnít have enough torque would have to be running to bend the rod.


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Last edited by 74Powerwagon; 08-06-2020 at 09:00 AM.
 
Old 08-06-2020, 01:01 PM   #6
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I have not hydroloced Cummins........, but according to my experience with other engines, I can confirm : starter can bend the conrods.
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:25 PM   #7
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I've seen engines with rods bent just enough to cause incomplete combustion at specific RPM, and operate completely fine is other operating conditions.
We had one that cranked and ran with water in the cylinders because the rain cap failed. It ran at full load for 17 minutes before it gutted itself due to the piston group failure.

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Old 08-06-2020, 02:15 PM   #8
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I've seen it on 7.3L's.
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Old 11-28-2020, 01:48 PM   #9
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I had a rod bend from starting. my water injection siphoned in over nite next morning went to start and stopped just like you did tried it again and ran rough. Pulled engine about and number 3 was bent a little and just hit the bottom of the sleeve and knocked a little chunk off. Threw new rods in and was good to go
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Old 11-29-2020, 06:07 PM   #10
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Sounds like a starter can bend a rod.
 
Old 11-30-2020, 03:37 AM   #11
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Sounds like a starter can bend a rod.
Well, Iím not going to call the man a liar since anything is possible with engines. However, Iíve been diagnosing, machining, repairing and rebuilding engines of every size since I was a zygote and Iíve never seen it.
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Old 11-30-2020, 06:02 AM   #12
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Well, Iím not going to call the man a liar since anything is possible with engines. However, Iíve been diagnosing, machining, repairing and rebuilding engines of every size since I was a zygote and Iíve never seen it.
Well... Zygotes can hardly do anything resembling reason, so.. I'm not going to believe much of anything you ever say. Haha
 
Old 11-30-2020, 06:54 AM   #13
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...I was a zygote...
Is that anything like antifa?
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Old 11-30-2020, 07:26 AM   #14
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Hahah nice.

Wasn’t trying to sound like I was calling anyone a liar btw.

Maybe it isn’t the starter but more that some of these trucks crank in half a turn it seems. Some cylinders popping off must be enough force to bend one.
 
Old 11-30-2020, 05:30 PM   #15
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Hey, no offense taken here. I don't care how long you've been doing something, if you're doing it with your eyes open you'll see things you never saw before on a regular basis.
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Old 11-30-2020, 06:09 PM   #16
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Well, Iím not going to call the man a liar since anything is possible with engines. However, Iíve been diagnosing, machining, repairing and rebuilding engines of every size since I was a zygote and Iíve never seen it.
For you...... Rain cap fell corroded until it fell off. We had a record rainfall. Cylinder filled with water. They cranked it and it ran 17 minutes until the block was cut in half. It was still running when they shut it off because of the ensuing fire. The rod lodge when it spun down, and stopped the engine so violently that it sheered the PTO's and split the case of the Hydraulic clutch that drove the machine (petersen 4700b)

Im assuming with a high degree of confidence that the rod bent before it helicoptered. Click the image to open in full size.

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Old 12-01-2020, 04:42 AM   #17
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For you...... Rain cap fell corroded until it fell off. We had a record rainfall. Cylinder filled with water. They cranked it and it ran 17 minutes until the block was cut in half. It was still running when they shut it off because of the ensuing fire. The rod lodge when it spun down, and stopped the engine so violently that it sheered the PTO's and split the case of the Hydraulic clutch that drove the machine (petersen 4700b)

Im assuming with a high degree of confidence that the rod bent before it helicoptered. Click the image to open in full size.

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If it wasnít a C15/3406 Cat I may have just agreed with you but kitty cats have pretty beefy rods in them. Still not saying that itís impossible, but itís much more likely that the failure came from the water turning the oil into peanut butter. The problem started with the rod bearing. I actually see this often with standby gensets with exhaust systems that didnít account for condensation disposal.
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:41 AM   #18
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If it wasnít a C15/3406 Cat I may have just agreed with you but kitty cats have pretty beefy rods in them. Still not saying that itís impossible, but itís much more likely that the failure came from the water turning the oil into peanut butter. The problem started with the rod bearing. I actually see this often with standby gensets with exhaust systems that didnít account for condensation disposal.
You are a stubborn beast.
And if there were no signs of deformation or heat at the big end, and the oil sample was clean (what was left of it)?


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Old 12-01-2020, 09:40 AM   #19
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You are a stubborn beast.
And if there were no signs of deformation or heat at the big end, and the oil sample was clean (what was left of it)?


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You skipped the part where I said that "anything is possible". I'm just saying that it's unlikely. Calm down, the vagisil is in aisle 5.
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Old 12-01-2020, 11:02 AM   #20
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You skipped the part where I said that "anything is possible". I'm just saying that it's unlikely. Calm down, the vagisil is in aisle 5.
I'm calm. Just seeing how far you will go.

FWIW I agree, the bearing should deform and fail before the tensile strong of the rod is exceeded.

The engine in the picture was isolated. They keep the machine in a large warehouse. They happened to have left it outside for building maintenance and it got hosed.

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