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Old 03-25-2012, 09:07 AM   #1
deerefanatic

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Trailing arm Airbag rear suspension.. Input needed

Hey guys, I'm doing a cummins swap into a GMT400 (90's style) Chevy 3500. 88 model year to be exact. I'm putting a dually Dana 80 in it. It's a 2wd truck and my DD/Towrig.

I'm thinking since the spring perch distances are different between the 80 and the Dana 60 that's in the truck, I'd just go ahead and fab up the air ride setup that I've wanted for a coon's age. Here's my projected idea:

Fairly long trailing arm (prolly 4 feet or so) anchored in Poly bushings at the front. Trailing arm u-bolted to the axle. Dropped section behind the axle with an airbag and shock absorber. I know it will have a power-rise when you get on it, but I'll put some limit cables to limit how much rise it can have, and like I said, it's a tow rig, that has a gooseneck behind it quite often.

What do you all think? For lateral stability, I'll run a panhard bar to keep the axle centered.
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2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
 
Old 03-25-2012, 11:06 PM   #2
Jacob 76
 
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I think it was on here, maybe another forum, it's been a long time but I remember seeing a 70s ford that the guy took the entire rear suspension out of a peterbilt and put in his pickup. Same setup as what you described with the trailing arms and rear bracket with bags. It would be cool to have an automatic leveling valve like on trucks. That way when you load up your bags will automatically fill. Your antisquat (rear rising) can be solved with proper planning and geometry with your trailing arms. Sounds like the perfect setup for a tow rig though, heavy duty and originality.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:41 AM   #3
Hurley
 
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sounds like a decent setup... you 'should' be able to control anti-squat with the link geometry
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:34 AM   #4
deerefanatic

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Ok. Sounds good guys. I plan to have automatic fill valves. Possibly 1 for each side to control body roll...

My theory on the links is to make them as long as practical to control the anti-squat. Anybody have any links to some design stuff for trailing arm systems like this? There's 4 link calculators all over, but never seen anything for this type of setup.
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-Matt

2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
 
Old 03-26-2012, 07:48 AM   #5
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Sounds like you plan on doing something like the 67-72 chevy suspension. Pretty much a 2 link with a panhard.
 
Old 03-26-2012, 08:41 AM   #6
deerefanatic

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Pretty much. Should ride nice that way and handle good too......

I guess we'll just build 'er big and see what happens. Gotta decide what bags I'm gonna run
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-Matt

2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
 
Old 03-26-2012, 08:46 AM   #7
Hurley
 
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the 4-link calculator from Pirate will work, you just design it where there's no separation between the 'links' at the frame-side.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:56 AM   #8
deerefanatic

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. With 48" arms I've got 200% antisquat.
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-Matt

2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
 
Old 03-26-2012, 10:01 AM   #9
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If you plan on running the bags behind the axle look into F9000's from Firestone.
 
Old 03-26-2012, 10:03 AM   #10
deerefanatic

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Not big enough. I need at least 3500# capacity per bag... Would rather have 4000#... This is a tow rig... Dually tow rig.
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-Matt

2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
 
Old 03-26-2012, 10:09 AM   #11
Hurley
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerefanatic View Post
. With 48" arms I've got 200% antisquat.
post a screen-shot of your geometry? I'd gander that the imaginary line between axle center and front link mount center should be basically parallel to ground at ride height?
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THIS
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95 2500 RCSB 2wd back-halfed and 4-linked
5x14/7mm +100cc/4k/11-blade billet 63/68/.91 T4
539/989

03 RCLB 4x4, SSR
 
Old 03-26-2012, 10:30 AM   #12
deerefanatic

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I gotta do some more playing around... I know the graph didn't look right. The calc I have is the Triage calc I found referenced to on Pirate4x4
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2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
 
Old 03-26-2012, 10:52 AM   #13
9724VF350
 
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I need to do something along this line. I want air ride so I don't have to operate the worn out jack on my gooseneck.

The springs in my truck make it unbearable to drive. I've had several occasions on the interstate where the back tires come off the ground and the engine rpm jumps. With a heavy trailer it's fine.

I was thinking about going to F150 leaf springs, something to control axle wrap, and airbags, I like this idea better.

What about putting the bags right above the axle tube, and making a gooseneck hitch that sticks out beyond the frame and using that for the top bag mount? When loaded stuipdly heavy on the trailer the truck frame shouldn't see any of the tounge load.
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:59 AM   #14
1lowdiesel
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerefanatic View Post
Not big enough. I need at least 3500# capacity per bag... Would rather have 4000#... This is a tow rig... Dually tow rig.
In that case you may want to look into either going with an over the axle set up or some big rig style single bellow bags behind the axle.
 
Old 03-26-2012, 10:59 AM   #15
deerefanatic

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Got er down to 166%.... Got some measuring to do on the truck and we'll get some more accurate numbers. Tire size is pretty much for certain. Axle end heights for the links are pretty much certain as well. Just gotta figure frame end heights.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg air ride 1.jpg (71.9 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg air ride 2.jpg (58.7 KB, 0 views)
__________________
-Matt

2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
 
Old 03-26-2012, 11:01 AM   #16
deerefanatic

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I know, exactly my thoughts too. Just dump er and back underneath.

That's my plan, to have the bags directly under the gooseneck plate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 9724VF350 View Post
I need to do something along this line. I want air ride so I don't have to operate the worn out jack on my gooseneck.

The springs in my truck make it unbearable to drive. I've had several occasions on the interstate where the back tires come off the ground and the engine rpm jumps. With a heavy trailer it's fine.

I was thinking about going to F150 leaf springs, something to control axle wrap, and airbags, I like this idea better.

What about putting the bags right above the axle tube, and making a gooseneck hitch that sticks out beyond the frame and using that for the top bag mount? When loaded stuipdly heavy on the trailer the truck frame shouldn't see any of the tounge load.
__________________
-Matt

2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
 
Old 03-26-2012, 11:01 AM   #17
deerefanatic

Name: deerefanatic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1lowdiesel View Post
In that case you may want to look into either going with an over the axle set up or some big rig style single bellow bags behind the axle.
That's exactly what I plan to do, have big rig bags behind the axle.
__________________
-Matt

2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
 
Old 03-26-2012, 11:25 AM   #18
dzljon
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerefanatic View Post
Not big enough. I need at least 3500# capacity per bag... Would rather have 4000#... This is a tow rig... Dually tow rig.
check these out:

Air lift bags | Air lift | air lift air bags | Air springs | Air spring
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:28 AM   #19
deerefanatic

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Hmmm. I like the #4400 bags... Triple convolute. PLENTY of load capacity, and lots of travel. Hmmmmmm... Not bad on price either.
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-Matt

2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
 
Old 03-26-2012, 11:34 AM   #20
dzljon
 
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my system uses the #3800 spings and they are nice, it takes about 24 psi to put it at the propper height and they have plenty more to expand.
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1999.5 F250 superduty CR Cummins installed
 
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