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04-06-2020, 09:10 AM
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#1
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Name: SPEEDSHIFT
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,978
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363? 364? 464? as a single/secondary?
I am trying to save myself some time and wanted to see what you guys think would be best for a single turbo (later on to be compounds) for my 2013 wit Aisin. Right now I have a DPS 3rd gen manifold with 364/74/14 gated. It runs well, but I have noticed some surging pulling my race trailer (20k lbs) and I loved the way my 351/467 compounds drove on my 5.9.
I only plan on a max effort tune around 600hp, I want to get on boost as fast as possible and have really cool EGTs. I have considered an aftermarket VGT but the lack of reliability is a major concern, along with the super high cost. I have a sxe63/74 I can swap in place of this 364, but I would need to sell or trade one of them for a 464.
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@bodie_armstrong
2003 2500 4x4 auto FOR SALE
2005 2500 4x4 auto Drag Truck
2013 3500 4x4 Aisin Dually Tow Rig
Tenacity Tuning, Longs Machine Shop, BD Diesel Performance
Last edited by SPEEDSHIFT; 04-06-2020 at 09:11 AM.
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04-06-2020, 01:31 PM
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#2
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Name: RD TRCTR
Title: Diesels, Burn Outs & Tits
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 652
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I am not a fan of the S300 frame chargers on a 6.7. I have a couple trucks running S464's, those are the best all around turbos, IMHO. Light well when towing and plowing snow, decent useful range.
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2018 3500 G56 unicorn
2006 2500
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04-06-2020, 03:23 PM
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#3
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Name: SPEEDSHIFT
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RD TRCTR
I am not a fan of the S300 frame chargers on a 6.7. I have a couple trucks running S464's, those are the best all around turbos, IMHO. Light well when towing and plowing snow, decent useful range.
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I agree, I just dont see a 464 lighting faster than a 363sxe. My truck has 3.42s with 31" tires, so I am at 1650rpm at 70mph. I want to be able to build a decent amount of boost at 1500rpm or so while accelerating from 60mph in OD, which is a very common scenario on long trips while pulling my trailer.
That is really where I need the power and EGT cooling. 1500-1800rpm, everything else I am fine with. I could swap gears, but that lower the MPG the other 80% of the time I am not pulling, and I actually got 10.5MPG pulling my trailer from Texas to Florida... which is great!
__________________
@bodie_armstrong
2003 2500 4x4 auto FOR SALE
2005 2500 4x4 auto Drag Truck
2013 3500 4x4 Aisin Dually Tow Rig
Tenacity Tuning, Longs Machine Shop, BD Diesel Performance
Last edited by SPEEDSHIFT; 04-06-2020 at 03:25 PM.
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04-09-2020, 03:17 PM
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#4
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Name: 56cummins
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2014
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 733
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Does your current 64 have the clipped turbine? I wonder how close the .83 WG t4 housing flows compared to your t3 .80.
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95 cummins
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04-09-2020, 04:10 PM
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#5
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,154
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'13 with an Aisin for towing. I'd do a 400 series just for the bigger/tougher frame. I have to believe that 6.7L is going to light a 464 pretty darn quick.
A 351/467 sounds pretty awesome on a 12V. Did you run a massive wastegate or just carry a lot of boost all the time?
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Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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04-10-2020, 08:35 AM
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#6
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Name: SPEEDSHIFT
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 56cummins
Does your current 64 have the clipped turbine? I wonder how close the .83 WG t4 housing flows compared to your t3 .80.
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I actually think its a 64/71/14. It was on the truck when I bought it, I believe this is the kit.
https://www.dieselpowersource.com/3r...d-gen-swap-kit
__________________
@bodie_armstrong
2003 2500 4x4 auto FOR SALE
2005 2500 4x4 auto Drag Truck
2013 3500 4x4 Aisin Dually Tow Rig
Tenacity Tuning, Longs Machine Shop, BD Diesel Performance
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04-10-2020, 08:39 AM
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#7
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Name: SPEEDSHIFT
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorneliusRox
'13 with an Aisin for towing. I'd do a 400 series just for the bigger/tougher frame. I have to believe that 6.7L is going to light a 464 pretty darn quick.
A 351/467 sounds pretty awesome on a 12V. Did you run a massive wastegate or just carry a lot of boost all the time?
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The 351/467 was on my 04. I just used a spring on the 351 gated 9cm housing that I had opened the port on. It was a really nice daily driver/ tow rig. If I could make this new truck have the power and ride of my 04 it would be perfect.
__________________
@bodie_armstrong
2003 2500 4x4 auto FOR SALE
2005 2500 4x4 auto Drag Truck
2013 3500 4x4 Aisin Dually Tow Rig
Tenacity Tuning, Longs Machine Shop, BD Diesel Performance
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04-10-2020, 09:53 AM
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#8
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Name: turbo2387
Title: Nipple Fluffer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Indiana
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 665
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63/68/14 with ported gate ports over a 75/96/1.32 and forget about it. tow the world. egts closer to zero then 1000* lol. both turbos doing minimal work. would service you just fine. 6.7's can kill a single s300 but in compounds that 300 will be making about 15psi of boost. it will last for ever.
insta spool
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04-11-2020, 08:30 AM
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#9
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Name: SPEEDSHIFT
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,978
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I am leaning towards the 300/400 setup mainly because I think the 363 will light faster, it’s gated, and it’s a little smaller to help clearing all the BS under the hood of this newer truck... if I was going for over 600hp and wanted to change injectors I would do the 400/400 with an external gate.
I can’t help but feel the “s400everything” is becoming more of a fad than just sizing the turbos correctly for your application, I could be wrong though.
__________________
@bodie_armstrong
2003 2500 4x4 auto FOR SALE
2005 2500 4x4 auto Drag Truck
2013 3500 4x4 Aisin Dually Tow Rig
Tenacity Tuning, Longs Machine Shop, BD Diesel Performance
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04-11-2020, 08:35 AM
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#10
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Name: SPEEDSHIFT
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,978
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I haven’t bought any parts yet though... so I’m all ears if anyone can say they think a cast 464/83/90 will spool faster than the 63sxe.
Let me know, if just want the best option.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
@bodie_armstrong
2003 2500 4x4 auto FOR SALE
2005 2500 4x4 auto Drag Truck
2013 3500 4x4 Aisin Dually Tow Rig
Tenacity Tuning, Longs Machine Shop, BD Diesel Performance
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04-11-2020, 09:56 AM
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#11
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Name: JWhite
Title: Trained monkey
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: F Burg Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,817
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I don't see a 464 spooling faster, maybe close. But with 3.42 gears I wouldn't tell you for sure you'd be happy.
Nothing wrong with the s300/400 compounds. Like mentioned, the manifold turbo with slow down and I don't think even above 600hp there'd be an issue.
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GMC with a LiLLY
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04-11-2020, 12:10 PM
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#12
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Name: SPEEDSHIFT
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,978
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Anyone ever seen a compound setup that used a flipped 3rd gen style manifold? Moving everything about 6” forward and 3” higher may be able to save me from buying/building a $500 coolant reservoir.
__________________
@bodie_armstrong
2003 2500 4x4 auto FOR SALE
2005 2500 4x4 auto Drag Truck
2013 3500 4x4 Aisin Dually Tow Rig
Tenacity Tuning, Longs Machine Shop, BD Diesel Performance
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04-11-2020, 12:45 PM
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#13
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,396
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Yes, guy I know did his compounds that way on a cummins swapped into an 80's box Chevy. I thought it was a great idea. He did it to keep his AC components.
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04-11-2020, 04:38 PM
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#14
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Name: USARMY12V
Title: Rally round the Virginian
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Virginia
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 711
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I have a S464 on my 2010 6.7 with 45% overs and EFI Live. I don’t tow with it at all but I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt it would be fine doing it and lots of people do, even without any more fuel at all. The only time it is laggy (and it’s not bad) is because the trans is playing it’s stupid 68RFE games. It’s never starving for boost or acts like it doesn’t know what it wants to do while cruising. Only times it’s finicky is up this steeper grade where I live where traffic goes from 35-45 intermittently because people don’t know how to drive. Mine is billet wheeled, 83mm turbine with .9 housing. If you drive like a grandma and stab it, it’ll spool up quick and rip the tires off.
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-Chris
"God gave them 24 for those too dumb to use 12."
Be a happy dinosaur
1998 QCLB 5.9 Auto Under the Knife
2010 MCSB 6.7 68RFE Draconian MCC soon to be EFI, Deleted
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04-11-2020, 08:56 PM
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#15
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEEDSHIFT
I can’t help but feel the “s400everything” is becoming more of a fad than just sizing the turbos correctly for your application, I could be wrong though.
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Careful bringing common sense into a conversation. The cast compressor on the 63.5mm S400 is a design generation older than even the common cast wheel on the 75mm S400, and flows ~ 12lbs/min less than the 63mm S300 SX-E. Beside the fact the 68/76mm S300 turbine is the same aero design as the 74/83mm S400 turbine.
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04-13-2020, 10:14 AM
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#16
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Name: SPEEDSHIFT
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
Careful bringing common sense into a conversation. The cast compressor on the 63.5mm S400 is a design generation older than even the common cast wheel on the 75mm S400, and flows ~ 12lbs/min less than the 63mm S300 SX-E. Beside the fact the 68/76mm S300 turbine is the same aero design as the 74/83mm S400 turbine.
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I didnt know any of that, but that makes me feel like I am making the right choice.
I ordered some flanges for the hot pipe so I can start mocking these up, see how if can stuff them in there without changing too much and keeping everything strong and reliable.
__________________
@bodie_armstrong
2003 2500 4x4 auto FOR SALE
2005 2500 4x4 auto Drag Truck
2013 3500 4x4 Aisin Dually Tow Rig
Tenacity Tuning, Longs Machine Shop, BD Diesel Performance
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04-13-2020, 01:18 PM
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#17
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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Cast S464 compressor on top, cast S471 compressor on bottom, as you can see they are very different blade designs.
Comp.png
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04-15-2020, 08:29 AM
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#18
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Name: SPEEDSHIFT
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,978
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Well that isn’t going to work... I could make it work if I turned it around, but I would have to make a more complicated hot pipe, which I really don’t like. Guess I will just do a basic over/under setup.
Looks like I will have to use a spacer on the manifold turbo, these SXe compressor housings are big. I will use an aftermarket manifold, this is just for mockup.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
@bodie_armstrong
2003 2500 4x4 auto FOR SALE
2005 2500 4x4 auto Drag Truck
2013 3500 4x4 Aisin Dually Tow Rig
Tenacity Tuning, Longs Machine Shop, BD Diesel Performance
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04-15-2020, 12:24 PM
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#19
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,396
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That guy I referenced must have used an industrial manifold, the secondary doesn't sit like that. Looked like a regular set of compounds with a flipped 2nd gen manifold, just further forward.
I saw the rearward exit on the manifold and assumed it was a stock 3rd gen manifold. I'll ask the guy, just have to run into him, don't have his number.
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04-15-2020, 01:05 PM
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#20
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 10,820
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The ones I've seen have been the commercial manifold.
Sent from my motorola one vision using Tapatalk
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