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03-25-2012, 09:07 AM
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#1
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Name: deerefanatic
Title: Always learnin...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Colon, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 566
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Trailing arm Airbag rear suspension.. Input needed
Hey guys, I'm doing a cummins swap into a GMT400 (90's style) Chevy 3500. 88 model year to be exact. I'm putting a dually Dana 80 in it. It's a 2wd truck and my DD/Towrig.
I'm thinking since the spring perch distances are different between the 80 and the Dana 60 that's in the truck, I'd just go ahead and fab up the air ride setup that I've wanted for a coon's age. Here's my projected idea:
Fairly long trailing arm (prolly 4 feet or so) anchored in Poly bushings at the front. Trailing arm u-bolted to the axle. Dropped section behind the axle with an airbag and shock absorber. I know it will have a power-rise when you get on it, but I'll put some limit cables to limit how much rise it can have, and like I said, it's a tow rig, that has a gooseneck behind it quite often.
What do you all think? For lateral stability, I'll run a panhard bar to keep the axle centered.
__________________
-Matt
2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
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03-25-2012, 11:06 PM
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#2
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Name: Jacob 76
Title: Let'er Buck
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 365
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I think it was on here, maybe another forum, it's been a long time but I remember seeing a 70s ford that the guy took the entire rear suspension out of a peterbilt and put in his pickup. Same setup as what you described with the trailing arms and rear bracket with bags. It would be cool to have an automatic leveling valve like on trucks. That way when you load up your bags will automatically fill. Your antisquat (rear rising) can be solved with proper planning and geometry with your trailing arms. Sounds like the perfect setup for a tow rig though, heavy duty and originality.
__________________
Darcy - 12v 97 F350, back-halved, 4 linked, and 24" of rear travel and 16" front.
Herman - Twin Turbo 7.3 Currently setting with a great big hole in the block...
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03-26-2012, 06:41 AM
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#3
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Name: Hurley
Title: BLAKLUNG
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Statesville, NC
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,698
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sounds like a decent setup... you 'should' be able to control anti-squat with the link geometry
__________________
THIS
IS
COMPD.
95 2500 RCSB 2wd back-halfed and 4-linked
5x14/7mm +100cc/4k/11-blade billet 63/68/.91 T4
539/989
03 RCLB 4x4, SSR
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03-26-2012, 07:34 AM
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#4
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Name: deerefanatic
Title: Always learnin...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Colon, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 566
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Ok. Sounds good guys. I plan to have automatic fill valves. Possibly 1 for each side to control body roll...
My theory on the links is to make them as long as practical to control the anti-squat. Anybody have any links to some design stuff for trailing arm systems like this? There's 4 link calculators all over, but never seen anything for this type of setup.
__________________
-Matt
2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
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03-26-2012, 07:48 AM
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#5
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Name: 1lowdiesel
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Shelbyville, In
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,019
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Sounds like you plan on doing something like the 67-72 chevy suspension. Pretty much a 2 link with a panhard.
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03-26-2012, 08:41 AM
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#6
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Name: deerefanatic
Title: Always learnin...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Colon, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 566
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Pretty much. Should ride nice that way and handle good too......
I guess we'll just build 'er big and see what happens. Gotta decide what bags I'm gonna run
__________________
-Matt
2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
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03-26-2012, 08:46 AM
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#7
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Name: Hurley
Title: BLAKLUNG
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Statesville, NC
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,698
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the 4-link calculator from Pirate will work, you just design it where there's no separation between the 'links' at the frame-side.
__________________
THIS
IS
COMPD.
95 2500 RCSB 2wd back-halfed and 4-linked
5x14/7mm +100cc/4k/11-blade billet 63/68/.91 T4
539/989
03 RCLB 4x4, SSR
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03-26-2012, 09:56 AM
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#8
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Name: deerefanatic
Title: Always learnin...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Colon, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 566
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. With 48" arms I've got 200% antisquat.
__________________
-Matt
2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
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03-26-2012, 10:01 AM
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#9
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Name: 1lowdiesel
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Shelbyville, In
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,019
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If you plan on running the bags behind the axle look into F9000's from Firestone.
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03-26-2012, 10:03 AM
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#10
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Name: deerefanatic
Title: Always learnin...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Colon, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 566
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Not big enough. I need at least 3500# capacity per bag... Would rather have 4000#... This is a tow rig... Dually tow rig.
__________________
-Matt
2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
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03-26-2012, 10:09 AM
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#11
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Name: Hurley
Title: BLAKLUNG
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Statesville, NC
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerefanatic
. With 48" arms I've got 200% antisquat.
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post a screen-shot of your geometry? I'd gander that the imaginary line between axle center and front link mount center should be basically parallel to ground at ride height?
__________________
THIS
IS
COMPD.
95 2500 RCSB 2wd back-halfed and 4-linked
5x14/7mm +100cc/4k/11-blade billet 63/68/.91 T4
539/989
03 RCLB 4x4, SSR
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03-26-2012, 10:30 AM
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#12
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Name: deerefanatic
Title: Always learnin...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Colon, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 566
|
I gotta do some more playing around... I know the graph didn't look right. The calc I have is the Triage calc I found referenced to on Pirate4x4
__________________
-Matt
2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
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03-26-2012, 10:52 AM
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#13
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Name: 9724VF350
Title: Tractor Guy
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northeast Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,784
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I need to do something along this line. I want air ride so I don't have to operate the worn out jack on my gooseneck.
The springs in my truck make it unbearable to drive. I've had several occasions on the interstate where the back tires come off the ground and the engine rpm jumps. With a heavy trailer it's fine.
I was thinking about going to F150 leaf springs, something to control axle wrap, and airbags, I like this idea better.
What about putting the bags right above the axle tube, and making a gooseneck hitch that sticks out beyond the frame and using that for the top bag mount? When loaded stuipdly heavy on the trailer the truck frame shouldn't see any of the tounge load.
__________________
97 F350 4X4 CC Dually 5spd 24V 913 S300/HT3B Ranch Hand.
Playtoy-Oliver 1655. 12V now , 13mm, S475
Wife's ride-03 Excursion 12V swap in the works.
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03-26-2012, 10:59 AM
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#14
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Name: 1lowdiesel
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Shelbyville, In
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerefanatic
Not big enough. I need at least 3500# capacity per bag... Would rather have 4000#... This is a tow rig... Dually tow rig.
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In that case you may want to look into either going with an over the axle set up or some big rig style single bellow bags behind the axle.
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03-26-2012, 10:59 AM
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#15
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Name: deerefanatic
Title: Always learnin...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Colon, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 566
|
Got er down to 166%.... Got some measuring to do on the truck and we'll get some more accurate numbers. Tire size is pretty much for certain. Axle end heights for the links are pretty much certain as well. Just gotta figure frame end heights.
__________________
-Matt
2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
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03-26-2012, 11:01 AM
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#16
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Name: deerefanatic
Title: Always learnin...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Colon, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 566
|
I know, exactly my thoughts too. Just dump er and back underneath.
That's my plan, to have the bags directly under the gooseneck plate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9724VF350
I need to do something along this line. I want air ride so I don't have to operate the worn out jack on my gooseneck.
The springs in my truck make it unbearable to drive. I've had several occasions on the interstate where the back tires come off the ground and the engine rpm jumps. With a heavy trailer it's fine.
I was thinking about going to F150 leaf springs, something to control axle wrap, and airbags, I like this idea better.
What about putting the bags right above the axle tube, and making a gooseneck hitch that sticks out beyond the frame and using that for the top bag mount? When loaded stuipdly heavy on the trailer the truck frame shouldn't see any of the tounge load.
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__________________
-Matt
2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
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03-26-2012, 11:01 AM
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#17
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Name: deerefanatic
Title: Always learnin...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Colon, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 566
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1lowdiesel
In that case you may want to look into either going with an over the axle set up or some big rig style single bellow bags behind the axle.
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That's exactly what I plan to do, have big rig bags behind the axle.
__________________
-Matt
2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
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03-26-2012, 11:25 AM
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#18
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Name: dzljon
Title: Aviation TIG Welder
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerefanatic
Not big enough. I need at least 3500# capacity per bag... Would rather have 4000#... This is a tow rig... Dually tow rig.
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check these out:
Air lift bags | Air lift | air lift air bags | Air springs | Air spring
__________________
AUTHORIZED LONGEVITY WELDING EQUIPMENT DEALER
1999.5 F250 superduty CR Cummins installed
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03-26-2012, 11:28 AM
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#19
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Name: deerefanatic
Title: Always learnin...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Colon, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 566
|
Hmmm. I like the #4400 bags... Triple convolute. PLENTY of load capacity, and lots of travel. Hmmmmmm... Not bad on price either.
__________________
-Matt
2006 Chevy 3500 CC Dually LBZ - Died again
2005 Mercedes E320 CDI - Best car I've ever owned
2004 Chevy 3500 8.1 - Gas hog
88 Chevy C3500 Cummins, RIP
84 Mercedes 300SD Diesel. Old reliable..
64 Oliver 1850 Cummins. 227hp, for now...
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03-26-2012, 11:34 AM
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#20
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Name: dzljon
Title: Aviation TIG Welder
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 444
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my system uses the #3800 spings and they are nice, it takes about 24 psi to put it at the propper height and they have plenty more to expand.
__________________
AUTHORIZED LONGEVITY WELDING EQUIPMENT DEALER
1999.5 F250 superduty CR Cummins installed
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