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04-21-2016, 12:33 AM
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#41
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
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Finished assembling the remaining 3 rocker lever assemblies. Bolted on the oil cooler and filter head package and the water inlet connection.
Set the head on the block and dropped in Hamilton's HD push rods, threaded in the ARP CA625 studs. Ran them in until hand tight as per their instructions.
Something didn't look quite right with the shorties between the exhaust runners. But the head wasn't seated just yet so I waited.
Sure enough...
I did notice that while bottom tapping the bores, the 6 along the exhaust side were about 3/8" deeper than the rest of the bores. I started to think that maybe those didn't need to be tapped. But, after counting 14 threads on the stud and 14 turns until it stopped in the bore, that tells me that all of the threads wouldn't have been engaged if I hadn't tapped them deeper.
Some guys I've talked to said to back them out until they're flush or that ARP says to back them out 1/4 of a turn. None can provide an official ARP document stating to back these studs out 1/4 of a turn and the instructions found on their website and that came with the studs do not say anything about backing them out. Only stating to run them in hand tight only. Nothing more. I ain't about to back them out because then it would be as if I didn't bottom tap and therefore, all of the threads again would not be fully engaged. Is this common for the early 12 valve blocks?
I measured one of the studs I took out with my calipers, 3.424". It appears they need to be 3/8-1/2" longer. Does anyone happen to have a 625+ set for a 12v and be willing measure the short stud for me? Kit #247-4205.
I'm gonna call ARP tomorrow and ask what happened. Before I go any further, I need to ensure that I can get the head seated fully before starting the torque sequence. I don't want to pull the head down with the studs.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
Last edited by jimbo486; 04-21-2016 at 12:39 AM.
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04-21-2016, 11:13 AM
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#42
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
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According to Zach at ARP, there are variances with the early 12v blocks that they recently became aware of. They're currently working towards producing a kit for the early 12v blocks that will have longer shorties but they won't have them available for about another 6 months. He said a few guys he's spoken with about this have just removed the hardened washer and run only the nut. I mentioned that the washer isn't quite 3/8" of an inch and that the stud may still be a little short. He said that if the stud is 1 or 2 threads below flush, that is acceptable. He also said no to backing the stud out to make it flush for the same reason I suspected, not having full thread engagement in the block.
Once the new kits become available, I may see if they'd let me exchange these for the longer ones. At worst, I'd probably have to buy the new ones.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
Last edited by jimbo486; 04-21-2016 at 11:14 AM.
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04-21-2016, 11:16 AM
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#43
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Name: 56cummins
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2014
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 736
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"Some guys I've talked to said to back them out until they're flush"
You want the nut threads in full contact with the stud before torquing. Good idea to make sure they are the right length. Engine looks good.
__________________
95 cummins
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04-21-2016, 11:24 AM
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#44
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Name: 97rada
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo486
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How much were the new stands? Also how much were the rockers? Have a part number
__________________
Austin
tow truck- 14-3500 with tuning
toy truck -94 rclb auto- 5.2x with a lot left. Shooting for 4s
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex...it takes a touch of genius- and alot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
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04-21-2016, 11:32 AM
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#45
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 56cummins
"Some guys I've talked to said to back them out until they're flush"
You want the nut threads in full contact with the stud before torquing. Good idea to make sure they are the right length. Engine looks good.
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Thanks. It just didn't sound like a good idea to me nor did I think ARP would recommend it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97rada
How much were the new stands? Also how much were the rockers? Have a part number
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By stands, you mean the pedestals? I didn't buy new, just had my existing ones milled. I also bought new thrust washers and retaining rings for the rockers.
Thrust (Plain) washer P/N: 3900245 - $3.10ea., $37.20 for 12.
Retaining ring P/N: 3900242 - $4.19ea., $50.28 for 12.
Intake rocker lever P/N: 3910811 - $32.81ea., $196.86 for 6.
Exh. rocker lever P/N: 3900810 - $32.81ea., $196.86 for 6.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
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04-21-2016, 11:54 AM
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#46
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Name: 56cummins
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2014
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo486
According to Zach at ARP, there are variances with the early 12v blocks that they recently became aware of. They're currently working towards producing a kit for the early 12v blocks that will have longer shorties but they won't have them available for about another 6 months. He said a few guys he's spoken with about this have just removed the hardened washer and run only the nut. I mentioned that the washer isn't quite 3/8" of an inch and that the stud may still be a little short. He said that if the stud is 1 or 2 threads below flush, that is acceptable. He also said no to backing the stud out to make it flush for the same reason I suspected, not having full thread engagement in the block.
Once the new kits become available, I may see if they'd let me exchange these for the longer ones. At worst, I'd probably have to buy the new ones.
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Thanks for posting arp's recommendation. Good to know.
__________________
95 cummins
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04-22-2016, 05:07 PM
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#47
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
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__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
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04-22-2016, 07:54 PM
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#48
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Name: 97rada
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,410
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I would suggest not getting rid of that vent fitting. It helps with de air ration of the cooling system
__________________
Austin
tow truck- 14-3500 with tuning
toy truck -94 rclb auto- 5.2x with a lot left. Shooting for 4s
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex...it takes a touch of genius- and alot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
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04-22-2016, 10:33 PM
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#49
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
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I've never noticed an issue with the original t-stat housing which doesn't have the vent in it. I pull the plug in the head right next to the t-stat when filling the system so it can purge.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
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04-22-2016, 10:55 PM
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#50
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
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Perhaps I could run a T-fitting for both that and the bypass? Or would that have an adverse effect on the bypass?
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
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04-23-2016, 12:24 AM
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#51
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
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__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
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04-23-2016, 07:45 AM
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#52
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Name: 97rada
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo486
I've never noticed an issue with the original t-stat housing which doesn't have the vent in it. I pull the plug in the head right next to the t-stat when filling the system so it can purge.
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Hmm it should have had one from factory. That's strange.
__________________
Austin
tow truck- 14-3500 with tuning
toy truck -94 rclb auto- 5.2x with a lot left. Shooting for 4s
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex...it takes a touch of genius- and alot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
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04-23-2016, 07:50 AM
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#53
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Name: 95cummins5.9
Title: Old man ***** gossiper
Status:
Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: U.S.A
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,720
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I bet you can recheck your torque on those studs every other day and get the nuts to turn. I'd keep running them down to 150 until you do the warm up and hot torque, just to make sure your rings are crushing the gasket.
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04-23-2016, 09:49 AM
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#54
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97rada
Hmm it should have had one from factory. That's strange.
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To the best of my knowledge, the vent line didn't come around until '94.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95cummins5.9
I bet you can recheck your torque on those studs every other day and get the nuts to turn. I'd keep running them down to 150 until you do the warm up and hot torque, just to make sure your rings are crushing the gasket.
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I did run around them a few more times yesterday at 150ft. lbs. and they hardly moved at all. ARP recommend cold retorques.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
Last edited by jimbo486; 04-23-2016 at 09:51 AM.
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04-24-2016, 07:35 PM
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#55
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
|
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
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04-28-2016, 11:36 AM
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#56
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
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I love bead blasters! Made very quick work of stripping all these parts in preparation for paint.
One thing that came to mind over the weekend, I figured out that the port in the '94 and up thermostat housing is 1/4" NPT. I'm wondering if this will be large enough to handle the potential flow of the coolant bypass. I've looked for specifications of the Watts 530C PRV in regards to flow but I couldn't source anything. In my mind and unless a high RPM is maintained, when the PRV opens, it may only be open for a very short time and therefore, may not need to pass a very large volume.
I thought of drilling and tapping it for 1/2" NPT but there doesn't appear to be quite enough room. As well, the existing hole is somewhat close to the shoulder around the circumference of the neck. I can take a better picture of this, from directly above. I certainly don't want to ruin a new thermostat housing.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
Last edited by jimbo486; 04-28-2016 at 11:40 AM.
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04-28-2016, 12:12 PM
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#57
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Name: jlbayes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: michigan
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo486
ARP recommend cold retorques.
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this is all i do on mine. i am not a fan of hot retorques.
__________________
Jacob, 97 rclb
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04-28-2016, 12:17 PM
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#58
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Name: wideopen
Title: Slum Lord
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kowloon
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 20,815
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Nice work! But I do have one question...Why didn't you go ahead and swap the VE for a P-Pump?
Just curious?
__________________
____________________________________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM
Born on Date: April 3 2006
TS Performance ~ Diesel Performance Converters~ Fleece Performance ~ Suncoast ~ Fast Layne ~ Pro Street Diesel
Hellmann Performance ~ Keating Machine ~ Engineered Diesel ~ Mumau Diesel ~ GoGo Diesel ~ Hamilton Cams ~ Diesel Innovations ~ Grand Rock Exhaust ~ Smarty
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Molon labe
#FTCS
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04-28-2016, 12:38 PM
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#59
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
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Thank you!
Just wanting to stick with VE. Obviously with what I spent on this pump, a lot of people would say and have said, "you could've done a p-pump swap for cheaper." There's something to say about an older pump that's capable of producing a reasonable and still respectable amount of power. A p-pump did cross my mind because this would've been the time to do it. The only difference would've been building the bottom end a lot stronger. Obviously, I tend to build things with more than they realistically need but I prefer knowing I have a larger buffer rather than running on the ragged edge of failure.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
Last edited by jimbo486; 04-28-2016 at 12:39 PM.
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04-29-2016, 08:57 AM
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#60
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Name: wideopen
Title: Slum Lord
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kowloon
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 20,815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo486
Thank you!
Just wanting to stick with VE. Obviously with what I spent on this pump, a lot of people would say and have said, "you could've done a p-pump swap for cheaper." There's something to say about an older pump that's capable of producing a reasonable and still respectable amount of power. A p-pump did cross my mind because this would've been the time to do it. The only difference would've been building the bottom end a lot stronger. Obviously, I tend to build things with more than they realistically need but I prefer knowing I have a larger buffer rather than running on the ragged edge of failure.
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Fair enough...Regardless that is some awesome work!!
__________________
____________________________________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM
Born on Date: April 3 2006
TS Performance ~ Diesel Performance Converters~ Fleece Performance ~ Suncoast ~ Fast Layne ~ Pro Street Diesel
Hellmann Performance ~ Keating Machine ~ Engineered Diesel ~ Mumau Diesel ~ GoGo Diesel ~ Hamilton Cams ~ Diesel Innovations ~ Grand Rock Exhaust ~ Smarty
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Molon labe
#FTCS
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