Who's got the best truck in the country?

J-Pipes said:
Yeah! After weeks of chasing your tail and cussing that thing, you finally listened to people on here, who you asked what to do, and now it's the greatest! Hahaha

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:lolly::lolly: it was a crap shoot man ...had both ideas.....fixed it before yer shaking rustbucket....:stab:
 
zstroken said:
I didn't realize folks with a superstock puller looked at financial returns of their pulling adventures. Of course maybe it is just the "can I cover my fuel money/expenses for the trip?" LOL
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I don't but I certainly don't want to lose more money. Seems like every year we have to spend more and get paid pretty much the same to show up.
 
takedown95 said:
I don't but I certainly don't want to lose more money. Seems like every year we have to spend more and get paid pretty much the same to show up.
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Haha, you don't have to tell me about it, I can't believe how many toys and how much extra money I have since I don't have a pulling truck LOL.
 
zstroken said:
Haha, you don't have to tell me about it, I can't believe how many toys and how much extra money I have since I don't have a pulling truck LOL.
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Probably the reason I don’t want mine back out. Can chase any animal in just about any state I want annually and that is much more rewarding and thrilling, imo.
 
zstroken said:
Haha, you don't have to tell me about it, I can't believe how many toys and how much extra money I have since I don't have a pulling truck LOL.
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My only saving grace is I turned it into a legitimate business and yes with the right schedule and finishing mid-pack you can make a profit pulling but you have to do it smart and have a business plan and depreciate equipment appropriately. It'll help you in the first 5-6 years with planned losses against ordinary income but you use those tax deductions to fund the business and eventually start turning a profit.

I'm three years in and we expected peak losses last year and reduction in losses over the next three with eventual profits and break even over the next 6-7 years but COVID-19 guaranteed we will have a peak loss this year......
 
takedown95 said:
My only saving grace is I turned it into a legitimate business and yes with the right schedule and finishing mid-pack you can make a profit pulling but you have to do it smart and have a business plan and depreciate equipment appropriately. It'll help you in the first 5-6 years with planned losses against ordinary income but you use those tax deductions to fund the business and eventually start turning a profit.



I'm three years in and we expected peak losses last year and reduction in losses over the next three with eventual profits and break even over the next 6-7 years but COVID-19 guaranteed we will have a peak loss this year......
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You could certainly turn this year from a loss to a profit of you charged to teach a Masterclass of how to make pulling a legit business to "lose as little as possible"
We all know that hobby Motorsports isn't a money making proposition

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takedown95 said:
I think the idea is you have a round of pulling and the top xxx number of trucks move on to the next round. Each round you reduce the number of trucks that pull until you ultimately get to the finals. How many are in the finals isn't clear but 2-4 trucks.

In terms of SSDFWD I think the most consistent drivers in the nation are Kellogg, Crowder, Hastings, and Haisley. Not too far behind them is Dugan. Notice I didn't say trucks because at SSDFWD it's less about the truck and more about the driver. HP hasn't been an issue in that class for quite some time and some of these guys are are using chassis technology that is 10 years old and some only a few years old.

In the 3.0 and 3.6 class HP still rules for the most part even though 3.6 is getting to the point where you can't just drop the clutch and go full throttle right off the line.
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Would heat be an issue? It seems like running several times in a short amount of time with a SSDFWD would be an issue for the engine. Would you be able to keep it cool enough? I guess this obviously depends on how many pullers show up. How much time on an 85 degree day would your truck need between pulls?
 
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Meyers Farms said:
Would heat be an issue? It seems like running several times in a short amount of time with a SSDFWD would be an issue for the engine. Would you be able to keep it cool enough? I guess this obviously depends on how many pullers show up. How much time on an 85 degree day would your truck need between pulls?
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Haven't you seen the leaf blowers and the rapid oil changes when someone drops the hook or has to do a pull off? :)
 
Sarafin said:
You could certainly turn this year from a loss to a profit of you charged to teach a Masterclass of how to make pulling a legit business to "lose as little as possible"
We all know that hobby Motorsports isn't a money making proposition

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Id sign up for that lol
 
zstroken said:
Haven't you seen the leaf blowers and the rapid oil changes when someone drops the hook or has to do a pull off? :)
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I've seen that along with laying bags of ice on the head and block, but I've never heard from a truck owner how effective any of those tactics are. I'm not big time enough for my tractor to worry about overheating:lolly:
Just last night I pulled 3 times within an hour. (different classes, and dropped in one of them) She gets warm but will cool off pretty quick letting it idle.
 
Sorry. I haven't been on for a bit because I was able to actually do some pulling last week. Whether right or wrong if you look at the majority of pullers in the higher classes they all own their own businesses. It could be farming or construction or even dentistry and I'm sure they write the majority of their parts and maintenance off as "business expenses."

I, however, don't own a small business so I had to create one for pulling. I spoke with several tax attorneys, CPAs, and business attorneys. It cost me a little bit of money, probably $3k total but I was able to feel confident in my approach and had legal and tax representation in case something did go wrong.

First, you need to look at the nine factors the IRS looks at to determine if you can claim it as a legitimate business or is it a hobby. In making the distinction between a hobby or business activity, take into account all facts and circumstances with respect to the activity. A hobby activity is done mainly for recreation or pleasure. No one factor alone is decisive. You must generally consider these factors in determining whether an activity is a business engaged in making a profit:

-Whether you carry on the activity in a businesslike manner and maintain complete and accurate books and records.
-Whether the time and effort you put into the activity indicate you intend to make it profitable.
-Whether you depend on income from the activity for your livelihood.
-Whether your losses are due to circumstances beyond your control (or are normal in the startup phase of your type of business).
-Whether you change your methods of operation in an attempt to improve profitability.
-Whether you or your advisors have the knowledge needed to carry on the activity as a successful business.
-Whether you were successful in making a profit in similar activities in the past.
-Whether the activity makes a profit in some years and how much profit it makes.
-Whether you can expect to make a future profit from the appreciation of the assets used in the activity.

I determined that I could legitimately claim it as a business as the intent was to make a profit eventually. I stress eventually. I know some people say you have to make a profit xx out of xxx years but I have worked for several start-ups that didn't make a profit for 13-15 years and had losses totaling $200MM+. Look at Amazon. It operated at a loss for 20+ years.

I developed a formal and comprehensive business plan addressing the 9 factors above, formed a board of directors of experts in small business, developed an economic model and financial projections, created a separate bank account, filed with the state and local chamber of commerce, tracked every single $ in and out of the business with receipts and formal accounting records, held board meetings and kept formal board minutes. I formed a single member LLC, and obtained financing from yours truly in the form of a business line of credit in exchange 100% equity in the company. Every single asset and entry form and winnings check is in the name of the business with the Federal Tax ID of the business....etc. There are more steps to it but those are the basics.

Then at the end of the year I file my individual taxes as I would usually do and report all my income and expenses from the business since it's a single member LLC. I included any sponsorship, winnings, parts sold...etc. as income and any fees, costs, and depreciation of assets as losses. If at the end of the year my losses were more than my income I was able to reduce my individual tax burden. Whatever, I received as a tax deduction on my individual taxes in the form of a refund as a result of business losses, I put it right back into the business account.

I know I won't actually turn a profit for a few years because I will be depreciating the cost of the pulling vehicle and support vehicles...etc. for about 6 years total but there is a plan and a reasonable expectation I will make a year over year profit with a full return of costs over a longer time period.

It's a lot of work but it's a business and it's supposed to take work but it's worth it to operate a business I love and eventually make a profit. If you're interested in forming a business I would definitely contact a CPA and Tax Attorney. You don't need the most expensive ones either. In fact, my local H&R Block does my taxes but he also has 30 years of experience in small business tax and only had two clients audited with no findings so I know the IRS is confident in his ability to file legitimate businesses.
 
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takedown95 said:
Sorry. I haven't been on for a bit because I was able to actually do some pulling last week. Whether right or wrong if you look at the majority of pullers in the higher classes they all own their own businesses. It could be farming or construction or even dentistry and I'm sure they write the majority of their parts and maintenance off as "business expenses."

I, however, don't own a small business so I had to create one for pulling. I spoke with several tax attorneys, CPAs, and business attorneys. It cost me a little bit of money, probably $3k total but I was able to feel confident in my approach and had legal and tax representation in case something did go wrong.

First, you need to look at the nine factors the IRS looks at to determine if you can claim it as a legitimate business or is it a hobby. In making the distinction between a hobby or business activity, take into account all facts and circumstances with respect to the activity. A hobby activity is done mainly for recreation or pleasure. No one factor alone is decisive. You must generally consider these factors in determining whether an activity is a business engaged in making a profit:

-Whether you carry on the activity in a businesslike manner and maintain complete and accurate books and records.
-Whether the time and effort you put into the activity indicate you intend to make it profitable.
-Whether you depend on income from the activity for your livelihood.
-Whether your losses are due to circumstances beyond your control (or are normal in the startup phase of your type of business).
-Whether you change your methods of operation in an attempt to improve profitability.
-Whether you or your advisors have the knowledge needed to carry on the activity as a successful business.
-Whether you were successful in making a profit in similar activities in the past.
-Whether the activity makes a profit in some years and how much profit it makes.
-Whether you can expect to make a future profit from the appreciation of the assets used in the activity.

I determined that I could legitimately claim it as a business as the intent was to make a profit eventually. I stress eventually. I know some people say you have to make a profit xx out of xxx years but I have worked for several start-ups that didn't make a profit for 13-15 years and had losses totaling $200MM+. Look at Amazon. It operated at a loss for 20+ years.

I developed a formal and comprehensive business plan addressing the 9 factors above, formed a board of directors of experts in small business, developed an economic model and financial projections, created a separate bank account, filed with the state and local chamber of commerce, tracked every single $ in and out of the business with receipts and formal accounting records, held board meetings and kept formal board minutes. I formed a single member LLC, and obtained financing from yours truly in the form of a business line of credit in exchange 100% equity in the company. Every single asset and entry form and winnings check is in the name of the business with the Federal Tax ID of the business....etc. There are more steps to it but those are the basics.

Then at the end of the year I file my individual taxes as I would usually do and report all my income and expenses from the business since it's a single member LLC. I included any sponsorship, winnings, parts sold...etc. as income and any fees, costs, and depreciation of assets as losses. If at the end of the year my losses were more than my income I was able to reduce my individual tax burden. Whatever, I received as a tax deduction on my individual taxes in the form of a refund as a result of business losses, I put it right back into the business account.

I know I won't actually turn a profit for a few years because I will be depreciating the cost of the pulling vehicle and support vehicles...etc. for about 6 years total but there is a plan and a reasonable expectation I will make a year over year profit with a full return of costs over a longer time period.

It's a lot of work but it's a business and it's supposed to take work but it's worth it to operate a business I love and eventually make a profit. If you're interested in forming a business I would definitely contact a CPA and Tax Attorney. You don't need the most expensive ones either. In fact, my local H&R Block does my taxes but he also has 30 years of experience in small business tax and only had two clients audited with no findings so I know the IRS is confident in his ability to file legitimate businesses.
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I have pulling trucks set up the same way as you do its a legitimate business. Was a little stressful to get it set up right but so far its working as planned and should be profitable in a few years.
 
takedown95 said:
Sorry. I haven't been on for a bit because I was able to actually do some pulling last week. Whether right or wrong if you look at the majority of pullers in the higher classes they all own their own businesses. It could be farming or construction or even dentistry and I'm sure they write the majority of their parts and maintenance off as "business expenses."

I, however, don't own a small business so I had to create one for pulling. I spoke with several tax attorneys, CPAs, and business attorneys. It cost me a little bit of money, probably $3k total but I was able to feel confident in my approach and had legal and tax representation in case something did go wrong.

First, you need to look at the nine factors the IRS looks at to determine if you can claim it as a legitimate business or is it a hobby. In making the distinction between a hobby or business activity, take into account all facts and circumstances with respect to the activity. A hobby activity is done mainly for recreation or pleasure. No one factor alone is decisive. You must generally consider these factors in determining whether an activity is a business engaged in making a profit:

-Whether you carry on the activity in a businesslike manner and maintain complete and accurate books and records.
-Whether the time and effort you put into the activity indicate you intend to make it profitable.
-Whether you depend on income from the activity for your livelihood.
-Whether your losses are due to circumstances beyond your control (or are normal in the startup phase of your type of business).
-Whether you change your methods of operation in an attempt to improve profitability.
-Whether you or your advisors have the knowledge needed to carry on the activity as a successful business.
-Whether you were successful in making a profit in similar activities in the past.
-Whether the activity makes a profit in some years and how much profit it makes.
-Whether you can expect to make a future profit from the appreciation of the assets used in the activity.

I determined that I could legitimately claim it as a business as the intent was to make a profit eventually. I stress eventually. I know some people say you have to make a profit xx out of xxx years but I have worked for several start-ups that didn't make a profit for 13-15 years and had losses totaling $200MM+. Look at Amazon. It operated at a loss for 20+ years.

I developed a formal and comprehensive business plan addressing the 9 factors above, formed a board of directors of experts in small business, developed an economic model and financial projections, created a separate bank account, filed with the state and local chamber of commerce, tracked every single $ in and out of the business with receipts and formal accounting records, held board meetings and kept formal board minutes. I formed a single member LLC, and obtained financing from yours truly in the form of a business line of credit in exchange 100% equity in the company. Every single asset and entry form and winnings check is in the name of the business with the Federal Tax ID of the business....etc. There are more steps to it but those are the basics.

Then at the end of the year I file my individual taxes as I would usually do and report all my income and expenses from the business since it's a single member LLC. I included any sponsorship, winnings, parts sold...etc. as income and any fees, costs, and depreciation of assets as losses. If at the end of the year my losses were more than my income I was able to reduce my individual tax burden. Whatever, I received as a tax deduction on my individual taxes in the form of a refund as a result of business losses, I put it right back into the business account.

I know I won't actually turn a profit for a few years because I will be depreciating the cost of the pulling vehicle and support vehicles...etc. for about 6 years total but there is a plan and a reasonable expectation I will make a year over year profit with a full return of costs over a longer time period.

It's a lot of work but it's a business and it's supposed to take work but it's worth it to operate a business I love and eventually make a profit. If you're interested in forming a business I would definitely contact a CPA and Tax Attorney. You don't need the most expensive ones either. In fact, my local H&R Block does my taxes but he also has 30 years of experience in small business tax and only had two clients audited with no findings so I know the IRS is confident in his ability to file legitimate businesses.
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I am curious to see someone's balance sheet on the profitability. I would like to think motor refresh, fuel money, maintenance, and the occasional popped charger would more than eat through any purse money.
 
zstroken said:
I am curious to see someone's balance sheet on the profitability. I would like to think motor refresh, fuel money, maintenance, and the occasional popped charger would more than eat through any purse money.
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Here's some quick math on what mid-pack finishes will get you when you pre-commit. For estimation purposes let's assume 19 events and 30 hooks. This is a typical year on the NTPA/PPL combined circuit.

Show-up Money: $300/event x 19 events= $5,700
Mid-Pack Finish: $575/hook x 30 hooks=$17,250
Year end points fund (Mid-pack): $6,750
Misc Bonus: $1000
Total payout: ~$31,000

Expenses (Real numbers from 2019 season):
Fuel-$4800 (including comp fuel) and 7MPG on hauler
Entry Fees: $0-Included in pre-commit
Membership Fees: $2000
Routine Maintenance (Oil changes, tire sharpening, ether, Water Injection, supplies...etc)-$100/hook=$3000
Food/Bev (at most because most places feed you a few times and hot dogs are cheap): $100/event= $1900
Insurance for the year= $2500
Misc: $800

Net Profit: $16,000

I realize the truck and hauler aren't in this but this is after you pay and depreciate the costs as I noted above. Same thing with tools or ice machines if you choose to assign them to the business and write them off as expenses.

Yes, if you have a major rebuild or blow a charger (or three) you're going to eat a lot of your profit. If you sign up for contingencies you get discounts on those services too. The point is once you get established and depreciate your capitol costs you can show a profit. It's non-existent in the first 6-7 years but slowly builds after that. Throw in some sponsorships and sell some old parts wen you need to upgrade and you can reduce those costs even more.
 
What's the lowest diesel truck class that gets "show up" money? And then also get "mid-pack" payout money? What's mid-pack, fifth place? How many places do they pay back above the "show up" money?

Admittedly, that's the first time I've heard of show up money. Interesting.
 
SmokeShow said:
What's the lowest diesel truck class that gets "show up" money? And then also get "mid-pack" payout money? What's mid-pack, fifth place? How many places do they pay back above the "show up" money?

Admittedly, that's the first time I've heard of show up money. Interesting.
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I believe only the Grand National and Champ Tour classes are offered pre-commit. Some call it fuel money or tow pro money or show -up money. Essentially you commit to making every event on the tour and in exchange the organization helps defray the cost by paying a stipend. If you miss events you lose your benefit for the rest of the year. Each org is different in how they handle it. For NTPA they didn't pay it until the end of the year and if you missed an event you got nothing at all. For PPL they paid as you went and if you missed more than 2 events you lost the benefit for the rest of the year.

In 2020 NTPA had eliminated the show-up money and increased the year end points money instead. PPL had the same scheme as last year. Of course both orgs had to scale most benefits back this year and so no one gets show -up money for 2020 now.

Mid-pack is considered 5-7. I believe NTPA pays down to 12 and PPL pays down to 10 but also has a "lucky dog" for pre-comits so if you finish 11th or 13th you also get a payout. Year end points money is top 10 for both I believe.
 
"In 2020 NTPA had eliminated the show-up money and increased the year end points money instead. PPL had the same scheme as last year. Of course both orgs had to scale most benefits back this year and so no one gets show -up money for 2020 now."
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I didn't even know about that, especially with the year-end points increase.

Thanks, Ryan! I'll keep that in mind.

"I currently have a gas job nv4500 with 29 spline output. I've always worried about it not being able to handle it but it seems to be doing pretty well! Gonna be in the market for a 2wd nv tho!"
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I can attest to that. My brother has the same setup, and his works just fine.

Hello there! Welcome to the forum!

Welcome! It's great to have you with us.

My brother has a similar concern and I was about to ask the same thing. Thanks, Snedge!

Welcome to the forum, Royce! Fellow newbie here from Tampa, FL.

Hello there! Feel free to update us anytime. Let us see how it goes.

Welcome to the forum! Cheers!
 
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