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Exterior Care Wash, Wax, Paint, Body, Buffing, and Polishing.

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Old 11-09-2014, 08:44 PM   #1
inline6359

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paint and primer guns

What are you guys using for paint an primer guns? I know quality and price vary widly. Im tossing the idea of doing my truck myself. Its pretty straight with a few dings. Nothing major. I know some use the same gun for both and others have 2. Im trying to do as little wet and color sanding as possible.
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Old 11-09-2014, 09:49 PM   #2
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Depends on the finishing system.

Example #1. If you are going to use 2K urethane primers then I would have a separate primer gun.

Example #2. Metallic base coats. I want a good quality gun that will produce a consistent repeatable fan to limit the possibilities of stripes or mottling. Result separate paint gun. This gun could possibly be used for clear as well, probably take a tip change.

Personally I don't think anybody can produce a quality paint job for what a shop charges if they have to purchase all the supplies and equipment. I probably have a couple thousand into paint guns alone, then body hammers, sanding blocks, sand paper, masking tape and paper. It all adds up fast. Not even touching on having the proper facilities to paint in. Lighting, ventilation is critical to getting a quality result so you hopefully don't have to perform any post paint work.

Yes I've seen quality backyard paint jobs. What you don't see is how many times it took to get a panel right, or how much longer it took to complete.

You might be able to work with a shop on price if you complete the body work, and all initial sanding.
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Old 11-09-2014, 11:48 PM   #3
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You will be in it so deep after purchasing the equipment to do a proper and quality paint job, plus the additional materials you will need because you will NOT get it all right the first several times you paint unless you have previous paint experience. On top of that your time invested into the prep work will be many hours trust me.

I use a Sagola 4500, sometimes autobodystore has groupbuys on them for substantial discounts. Its a great gun for single stage and clears, but you can get different tips for it. Id buy a separate primer gun too because primer can be a mofo to get out of the gun sometimes and you dont want to ruin a high dollar clear gun. You dont need anything more expensive than a Sagola for personal use. Probably be good with a Finishline gun also. You will be sanding and polishing too, do not think you wont. Crap always manages to get on a paint job like a bug or hair or something retarded. Then you can ruin the paint buffing too unless you have practiced. I wouldnt get into painting unless its something you plan to keep doing more than once. Its not worth it trust me! Lol
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Old 11-10-2014, 06:24 AM   #4
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Anest Iwata LPH-400 gun here. Use it for everything. Absolutely love the gun. Before that I used a Harbor Freight HVLP and it honestly did dam well. They are $10 on sale at HF and can be thrown away if you only need a gun for a project or two. Otherwise the Anest I have is a $400 gun depending when and where you buy.
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Old 11-10-2014, 08:03 AM   #5
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Devilbiss sell a nice 3 gun kit for a decent price. Paint, promer, and a touch up gun..
 
Old 11-10-2014, 08:08 AM   #6
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I asked a body man what he recommended. He said if you're doing a 2 stage and no metallics or pearls, a $40 harbor freight will work. He said it doesn't matter how great of a gun you have, if your compressor can't keep up, you're gonna mess it up. You might have to wet sand a bit longer but if it's a weekend project, you might now care.
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Old 11-10-2014, 08:14 AM   #7
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Air compressor. I completely missed that. I remember one time a guy asked me to help him paint one of his projects in his garage. I reluctantly said yes. Within first 20 minutes I knew his compressor would not keep up. On top of that it would trip his circuit breaker. First and last time I ever considered doing work in anybody else's facility.

Somebody else mentioned polishing. He is absolutely correct. Quality polisher, pads, compounds, and higher end sand paper. It all adds up too.
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Last edited by Shainer; 11-10-2014 at 08:16 AM.
 
Old 11-10-2014, 09:24 AM   #8
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All good points amd things i didnt think about. The color is sonic blue metallic. I dont think it had any pearl in it. Ill have to check the code later. I talked to the local Monroe this morning, 10k with no body work. Im also running into the tuck being to big for most shops around here.
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Old 11-10-2014, 09:37 AM   #9
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I am in the same boat. Last time I talked to a shop it was basically we don't want to paint it but will for 10k


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Old 11-10-2014, 09:43 AM   #10
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$10K for a paint job without body work?? Does that include stripping the entire truck of everything to include the glass? No way is that just a scuff and spray job. I'm doing a frame off resto/rebuild, and granted I'm only using an enamel for the paint, I have less than $1K in primer, body filler, sand paper, and energy drinks. (I also only body filled where I welded in new panels, I left the dents) Even if the paint is $200 a gallon $10K is stupid expensive.
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Old 11-10-2014, 09:48 AM   #11
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I just painted my truck a dark grey metallic with silver flake last month. With sand paper, gallon of epoxy primer, gallon of base, gallon of clear, fiberglass for dually fender work, filler for small imperfections, cab corner, and gun purchase (I already owned the gun but using it for reference) I have less than a grand in the paint job. It came out great for my standards. Minimal orange peel so polish work will not be too bad.

Prep work is 90% of it. Cleanliness and starting with a straight smooth surface will determine much of the paint job. The other 10% is proper gun setup and technique which can be learned fairly quick if you have good eyes and somebody to show you with experience.

rule #1 is buy a good respirator. Body shop quality paints are brutal on your lungs.

Rule #2 is follow the technical data sheets! If it is a metallic make sure to pay attention to your recoat times and whether or not a drop coat is recommended. Mine recommended a drop coat which is nice because I was able to make the metallic nice and even with plenty of flake. Do not do a drop coat if it is not recommended and DO NOT do a drop coat if you are too far out of the drop coat window or it will not adhere. Then you will have clear coat adhesion problems which trashes the paint job.

I am not pro but my brother manages a body shop so I have picked up so dos and donts along the way so feel free to ask any questions. Do not let anyone scare you from doing your own paint work. Once you have learned the technical aspect of it you really will find body work to be hard but satisfying work in the end.

Another major thing to remember is small issues can be fixed. If you make it run just be patient. You can sand out runs later and orange peel isn't the end of the world.
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Old 11-10-2014, 10:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inline6359 View Post
All good points amd things i didnt think about. The color is sonic blue metallic. I dont think it had any pearl in it. Ill have to check the code later. I talked to the local Monroe this morning, 10k with no body work. Im also running into the tuck being to big for most shops around here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97rada View Post
I am in the same boat. Last time I talked to a shop it was basically we don't want to paint it but will for 10k


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10K? That is body shop speak for "We have plenty of easy insurance money right now. We will take your job.. but it will cost you because we don't want to."
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Old 11-10-2014, 11:01 AM   #13
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I know, that's my problem. I need to pain my truck and do rockers. It will have new fenders, doors and hood so no work will be needed there. Might even end up with a new bed. No one has quoted me better


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Old 11-10-2014, 11:13 AM   #14
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I used a hammered finish enamel so 90% of those problems didn't exist for me The recoat times are what shot me in the foot.

how did you get away with only 1 gallon of epoxy primer? Did you use High Build?

I'm on gallon 3 of epoxy primer, but the entire body was taken off, sand blasted, and got 2, or 3 coats depending on location (spots that see lots of sun got 3 coats of primer as well as 2 more coats of enamel).

I wear a dual seal gas mask style respirator with organic prefilter. Stuff's not cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but I need my lungs.

Sandpaper was where I could have spent several hundred dollars, but I didn't block sand everything for a perfect finish. I did a quick job since the hammered covers up just a ton of imperfections. When I do my QQSB 2nd gen next summer I'll be using high build after the epoxy primer and days worth of block sanding to get the body as smooth and seamless as possible.

The one major obstacle I've run into was the location where the painting is happening. My current shop doesn't have any ventilation, and cracking the door only results in dust being aggressively blown in. This results in a lot of atomized paint left in the air to settle wherever. This lends itself to lots of sanding. The next location will be ever worse, it'll be a carport connected to my single car garage.

So guns depend on what you're spraying, you NEED a large volume air compressor that has the CFM to keep up with continuous spraying, you need a GOOD respirator (preferably one that also protects your eyes as whatever gets in your eyes goes directly to your blood stream), you want ventilation that's negative pressure at the FLOOR-this way dust isn't being pulled up from the floor to the vehicle, aaaaaaand.......patience.
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Old 11-10-2014, 11:24 AM   #15
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Everything is speculative, right down to what an "acceptable" paint job looks like. I estimate if you are going through that much primer you should have spent more time on perfecting the sub straight first. Whether it be properly filling dents, or stripping paint down to bare steel with the appropriate grit for the primer. If you're not getting most panels correct with one heavy coat of 2K primer then more time should have been spent on the sub straight. Adding additional materials due to sun exposure may not be the best plan since those panels expand and contract to a greater degree you may get crazy cracking of the paint and/or primer down the road.
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Old 11-10-2014, 11:37 AM   #16
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I did 3 coats of epoxy with only 1 gallon. My truck is only a single cab and I did not do the inside of the bed since it is mint and will get bed liner so I am sure I used less because of that but 3 coats were plenty. Epoxy covers extremely well so 3 gallons is a lot of primer.

Epoxy does not sand worth a chit so I had to be extremely careful with it but being careful kept me from having to do much sanding and from having to do any more coats wasting primer.

To keep dust down crack a door with fans blowing out and run a garden house on the floor if dust is really bad. Do not shuffle your feet and make sure you blow the entire truck and its nooks ad crannies down with a blow gun. What kills a lot of guys is they think they are golden and start spraying only to find a pocket of dust or sand that kicks up in the middle of painting.

Another important factor is reducer. Do NOT buy too cold of a reducer. If you buy cold weather reducer and paint in an 80 degree shop you will find the paint wants to dry before it even hits the panel resulting in a tiger striped or poorly adhered paint job.

Again, most of the paint quality in the end is paying attention to data sheets and prep work. Prep work includes everything from dust on the floor to not putting bare hands on the surface before you paint.
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Old 11-11-2014, 01:43 PM   #17
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Largely what this decision will come down to is what i can do the job for and if i can get results that im happy with. Even if i buy top of the line guns, a compressor, a welder, and all the materials needed i still wont be anywhere near 6-8k which i was quoted today. I can **** alot of stuff up for that extra money paid to the paint shops. After reading all the info provided in this thread i still have a few questions.

With a relatively straight truck is high build epoxy primer really needed?

Primer can be a ***** so should i look for a seperate gun to do paint and clear or just purchase different tips and focus on.cleaning the gun?
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Old 11-11-2014, 02:04 PM   #18
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High build isn't necessary, but if you're after a perfect finish you'll want it. You spray it and block sand the entire truck in a specific pattern. That knocks down your high spots, and fills your low spots.

For the gun, me personally I use the same gun for everything, but I'm very particular with how I clean it. On that note, if I had the extra money, and planned on doing body work more than "as little as possible", I'd have 3 guns: primer, paint, clear.
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Old 11-11-2014, 02:06 PM   #19
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Largely what this decision will come down to is what i can do the job for and if i can get results that im happy with. Even if i buy top of the line guns, a compressor, a welder, and all the materials needed i still wont be anywhere near 6-8k which i was quoted today. I can **** alot of stuff up for that extra money paid to the paint shops. After reading all the info provided in this thread i still have a few questions.

With a relatively straight truck is high build epoxy primer really needed?

Primer can be a ***** so should i look for a seperate gun to do paint and clear or just purchase different tips and focus on.cleaning the gun?

I shoot primer and paint with the same gun. Different tips can be had for different materials. Epoxy primer and high build are two different things. I did epoxy only because I had to go to bare metal in areas and it adheres to bare metal extremely well without needing etching primer.

I would shoot it all with sandable primer and block sand it all nice and smooth if you do not have to deal with bare metal. If bare metal is an issue then shoot it with epoxy then shoot it with sandable primer and block sand it as epoxy has a tendency to orange peel. Epoxy is a total pain in the azz to sand so that is why I suggest sandable over that if needed.

Buying top of the line materials and such you will be well below what a body shop quoted you. Not to mention many body shops charge big but do the minimum needed to make it look shiny and nice for the time being. Mil spec is something many shops couldn't even define.

Buy quality products, do quality prep work, be extremely clean, take your time, educate yourself, follow the tech sheets, use a quality gun with CLEAN air being fed to it and you will have great results. If it has some orange peel or a run or two go buy some sand paper and a buffer.
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Old 11-11-2014, 03:17 PM   #20
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I shouldnt be down to bare metal in many spots. Mainly if i weld up the screw holes for the fender flares. That should be all the metal i see. Can i prep those areas with the epoxy primer then do sandable on the rest and over the epoxy primer on the fenders?
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