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10-16-2016, 07:16 PM
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#1
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Name: fosterriley
Title: Just wanna go fast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Oakdale/Bozeman
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Posts: 169
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Axle wrap with traction bars?
I installed some 40" long traction bars with ballistic 2.63 joints on my 2006 ram 2500. Still getting wheelhop/ axle wrap I've tried running no load on them and Preload. Same results either way.
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2006 5.9 HX60, Steed, Exergy 250%, GPD Fuelboss, dual pumps, Cope Billet 48re valvebody, CA tuned
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10-16-2016, 07:43 PM
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#2
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Name: fosterriley
Title: Just wanna go fast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Oakdale/Bozeman
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Posts: 169
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Here are some pictures. It was being a pain and would only let me upload them in PDF version.
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2006 5.9 HX60, Steed, Exergy 250%, GPD Fuelboss, dual pumps, Cope Billet 48re valvebody, CA tuned
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03-04-2017, 08:11 PM
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#3
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Name: turbo_coffin
Title: Rookie
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: saskatchewan
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Posts: 22
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Because those are only attaching to the axle at one point the axle can still rotate as much as it wants to
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03-04-2017, 10:24 PM
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#4
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Name: DieselheaD
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
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Posts: 2,731
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How many leafs do you have?
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03-05-2017, 12:54 AM
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#5
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
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You're likely flexing your leafs then. I like the style that hook onto the axle top and bottom, then have a shackle up front. That way you take that stress off the leafs, have more control, and don't bind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo_coffin
Because those are only attaching to the axle at one point the axle can still rotate as much as it wants to
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Maybe if you take the leaf springs off!
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Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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03-05-2017, 01:53 AM
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#6
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Name: Bodacious
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Weston, WV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorneliusRox
You're likely flexing your leafs then. I like the style that hook onto the axle top and bottom, then have a shackle up front. That way you take that stress off the leafs, have more control, and don't bind.
Maybe if you take the leaf springs off!
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Precisely
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"Careful who you argue with on the internet. Others might not know they are idiots."
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03-05-2017, 09:32 AM
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#7
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Name: Marq92
Title: Too Much Time
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The angle of the bars are probably working against the leaf spring arc making it hop, not wrap. You can have single bars that don't bind for more travel than these leafs will allow.
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2001.0 QCLB 3500 4x4 3.55 Toyo M-55 255/85R16 Brown's/Goerend 48RE sonnax shafts/maxed count Alto clutches Carli/Deaver 3.0 EMF BJ's PSC 6 bolt box Synergy steering TheRetroShop HID projector retrofit VLED's DC Power 180A alternator W-T ground mod ISSPRO EV2's
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03-05-2017, 06:15 PM
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#8
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Name: fosterriley
Title: Just wanna go fast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Oakdale/Bozeman
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Posts: 169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marq92
The angle of the bars are probably working against the leaf spring arc making it hop, not wrap. You can have single bars that don't bind for more travel than these leafs will allow.
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I think that is more what it's doing. I also filled up my tires from 40psi to 55psi and it decreased as well. Then threw on a different set of tires and it eliminated it. Odd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselheaD
How many leafs do you have?
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Full leaf pack with the 3 spacers flipped to the top. Thinking of pulling overloads.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
2006 5.9 HX60, Steed, Exergy 250%, GPD Fuelboss, dual pumps, Cope Billet 48re valvebody, CA tuned
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03-12-2017, 11:18 AM
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#9
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Name: NakeDiesel
Title: Smoke'n in the Mud
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hominy, OK
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Posts: 1,116
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This is the design I used for my traction bars. They work very well for weight transfer and locking the rear in place but allowing for movement. Granted, it is a full race only vehicle, only have 2 leafs in the rear as well as a ubolt flip kit to remove the lift block, and a shackle flip kit on the back of the leafs.
Traction bars
40psi boosted launch
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Normal rear ride height
[/url]
__________________
2005 Dodge Ram 3500 2x4 QC
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 QC
Coaltrain - 1946 Dodge Power Wagon powered by a little modified 12 valve.
Thanks to my sponsors: CP-Carrillo, Air Dog, Muldoons Diesel Performance, Power Driven Diesel, Diesel Performance Converters
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03-15-2017, 09:47 PM
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#10
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Name: Duramaxfan03
Title: Green Behind the Ears
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Join Date: Jul 2016
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Doesn't having a shackle in place where the bars meet the frame ruin the whole purpose of having traction bars? As you apply momentum the rear end wants to move, so the bars are supposed to hold it in place, but now that you have a shackle wont the bars just move the shackle back and fourth, thus allowing the rear end to still pivot? Im just a rookie puller so im just trying to learn.
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S&B CAI, MBRP intercooler tubes, PPE manifolds and up-pipes, profab turbo horn, MBRP downpipe, 5" straight exhaust, 10mm cp3, Fass 150 lift pump, 60% over injectors, studs, Custom traction bars, G2 tie rods, kryptonite center link, built trans & T-case
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03-15-2017, 10:33 PM
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#11
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Name: NakeDiesel
Title: Smoke'n in the Mud
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hominy, OK
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Posts: 1,116
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When you get axle wrap, the differential is trying to twist, the long traction bars prevent that and are held in place by the connection at the frame. The shackle is there to help with suspension travel so that it doesn't bind as the suspension cycles. I have solid rubber mounts in the back at the axle and heim joints at the 2 bars connection point and at the frame point. If I was doing hard core off roading and needed more flex, I'd make the front where it could swivel as well
__________________
2005 Dodge Ram 3500 2x4 QC
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 QC
Coaltrain - 1946 Dodge Power Wagon powered by a little modified 12 valve.
Thanks to my sponsors: CP-Carrillo, Air Dog, Muldoons Diesel Performance, Power Driven Diesel, Diesel Performance Converters
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03-15-2017, 10:33 PM
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#12
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Name: Marq92
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: May 2012
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Posts: 952
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If you run a shackle you need two mounting points on the top and bottom of the axle, and that is the extent I know about that lol. Such as what shackle angle is best, as well as what points on the axle.
__________________
2001.0 QCLB 3500 4x4 3.55 Toyo M-55 255/85R16 Brown's/Goerend 48RE sonnax shafts/maxed count Alto clutches Carli/Deaver 3.0 EMF BJ's PSC 6 bolt box Synergy steering TheRetroShop HID projector retrofit VLED's DC Power 180A alternator W-T ground mod ISSPRO EV2's
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03-15-2017, 10:43 PM
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#13
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Name: NakeDiesel
Title: Smoke'n in the Mud
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hominy, OK
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Yes, you do need a triangulated setup if you run a shackle. Here is some good reading material: http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/susp/axlewrap/
I tried to get my bars as parrallel to the ground and frame as I could for the bottom bar.
__________________
2005 Dodge Ram 3500 2x4 QC
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 QC
Coaltrain - 1946 Dodge Power Wagon powered by a little modified 12 valve.
Thanks to my sponsors: CP-Carrillo, Air Dog, Muldoons Diesel Performance, Power Driven Diesel, Diesel Performance Converters
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03-15-2017, 11:22 PM
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#14
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Name: smokinVE
Title: $$+VE=NO HP
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Desart
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Posts: 1,731
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93D350, VE powered, slow but reliable:-))
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc
I don't think they let hair sniffer twit much. Or the little gay guy. Only the Indian does.
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03-16-2017, 08:57 AM
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#15
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
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Posts: 4,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duramaxfan03
Doesn't having a shackle in place where the bars meet the frame ruin the whole purpose of having traction bars? As you apply momentum the rear end wants to move, so the bars are supposed to hold it in place, but now that you have a shackle wont the bars just move the shackle back and fourth, thus allowing the rear end to still pivot? Im just a rookie puller so im just trying to learn.
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You're thinking of it more like coil springs work.
With leafs, you can let the leaf hold the axle fore aft (and obviously vertically). The issue is pinion angle (axle rotation). With NakeDiesels setup (the best setup IMO), you make a triangle off the axle that's rotationally rigid, but can flex in the lateral direction because of the bushings at the axle, and can 'float' in the fore aft direction because of the shackle. What it will constantly do is provide rotational support, and what it wont do is create binding.
Other than the weight involved, it's the best/simplest setup you can do for a leaf spring rear. And I mean that for pulling, mud, drag, street, and towing.
There are others that try different stuff. I know FirePunk does a full four link rear and binds the leaf spring on purpose, but they gain more control over pinion angle and can keep it the same angle throughout travel. This setup will give you less pinion angle change per inch of travel, the longer you make it.
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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03-21-2017, 02:39 PM
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#16
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Name: sootie
Title: .....like a BAWSS
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Posts: 866
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only downside to the triangulated/shackle setup is that is does not prevent the axle from "plowing" which is when it translates the energy that would normally be axle wrap, to flexing into a "dog track" position. Of course that takes a generous amount of torque to cause that which many street driven and lower power trucks will never experience.
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