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Sled Pulling From Street to Pro-Mod, get your Sled Pulling fix here!

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Old 03-06-2019, 08:19 PM   #1
bigkev12valve
 
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472/491

I have more experience with 300/400 compounds. I'm diving into 400/400 compounds and am wondering if a 472/83/90 is a good idea to run with a 491/96/1.32. truck has 250 overs. And how tuning on a 2005 Cummins. I'm wondering if that .90 housing with the 83 wheel is gonna be my bottle neck or create any issues. I use a 1.0 housing on my 369 but didn't know if it matters as much on s400 frame turbos
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:06 PM   #2
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IMO both turbines are going to be bottle necks. More so the primary. I find it easiest to set a power goal, and pick a primary based on that. Once you have a primary picked, you can pick an effective secondary.
 
Old 03-07-2019, 02:07 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwentzler View Post
IMO both turbines are going to be bottle necks. More so the primary. I find it easiest to set a power goal, and pick a primary based on that. Once you have a primary picked, you can pick an effective secondary.


And what turbine are you thinking is better for the atmo?


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Old 03-07-2019, 02:26 PM   #4
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I don't have an 80/74? I'm just asking about the 72/83/90 I'm not worried about the 491 that 1.32 housing should be fine just wondering if I should get a 87/1.0 housing for the 72 or if the 90 should flow plenty
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:07 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by bigkev12valve View Post
I don't have an 80/74? I'm just asking about the 72/83/90 I'm not worried about the 491 that 1.32 housing should be fine just wondering if I should get a 87/1.0 housing for the 72 or if the 90 should flow plenty
What blackmega is saying is; your current S369 has a 73/80 turbine wheel and 1.0 T-4 housing. That turbine/turbine housing will flow similarly to the 74/83 turbine and .90 T-4 housing the the S472 would have on it.
 
Old 03-07-2019, 03:43 PM   #6
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Ok thank you for clearing that up. Well then that's what I was looking for then. Probably a little tight but I wasn't having issues with the 369 so it should be ok. I'd imagine shouldn't loose too much spool up then either. Obviously won't be the same but I'm assuming should be decent on the street yet. Guess I will have to run it to really find out
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:36 PM   #7
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And what turbine are you thinking is better for the atmo?
With a 91 compressor wheel, not a 96x88tw. Next options would be holset 97x92 turbine, s500, or gt55.
 
Old 03-07-2019, 08:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkev12valve View Post
I have more experience with 300/400 compounds. I'm diving into 400/400 compounds and am wondering if a 472/83/90 is a good idea to run with a 491/96/1.32. truck has 250 overs. And how tuning on a 2005 Cummins. I'm wondering if that .90 housing with the 83 wheel is gonna be my bottle neck or create any issues. I use a 1.0 housing on my 369 but didn't know if it matters as much on s400 frame turbos
How much power are you expecting the 250% overs to be capable of?
 
Old 03-07-2019, 08:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by wwentzler View Post
With a 91 compressor wheel, not a 96x88tw. Next options would be holset 97x92 turbine, s500, or gt55.
An 88/96 S400 turbine will flow more than an S500 turbine.
 
Old 03-07-2019, 09:12 PM   #10
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Right I'm not going s500 and I'm gonna imagine I'll be upwards of 1300 s&s rates them for 1500 horse. They flow more like 275 over is what they flowed at huckstorf by me
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:29 PM   #11
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72/87/1.0 t4

491/101/1.32 t6

Is a nasty setup! Has made over 1500 hp
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:31 PM   #12
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An 88/96 S400 turbine will flow more than an S500 turbine.
Seen more power with a s500/110/1.15 t6 then a 488/96/1.32 fed by a 72
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
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An 88/96 S400 turbine will flow more than an S500 turbine.
Uhhhh norgay Warner turbine maps say otherwise. Ya know, factual data.
 
Old 03-08-2019, 06:00 AM   #14
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Except***
 
Old 03-08-2019, 06:30 AM   #15
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I know saying an 88/96 S400 turbine can out do an S500 turbine won’t be supported by most people, but all else being equal, it will.
Borg’s map might say it flows more, and maps are a good starting place for comparisons, but quite a few dyno sessions have shown the truth of what I’m saying. Another illustration of what I’m saying about Borg’s maps is the SXE S400 stuff. Flow numbers look great on paper but they don’t work that well in real life.
There is a reason that the 88/96 turbine is so popular in SO many sled pulling applications, and to my knowledge, very few, if any, trucks have an S500 based turbo on them.
 
Old 03-08-2019, 06:45 AM   #16
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I knew where the logic was coming from, however I still dont agree. The reason it works on sled pull setup as a single, has to do more with the fact it spools quicker on our relatively small displacement engines. Diesel fuel is more efficient at making power at lower rpm, so quicker spool typically leads to more power. This is also demonstrated by testing with difference turbine housings on the same turbine, smallest housing usually makes most power.

The sxe map DOES work in real life, just not on a diesel as a single. This is obvious if you know how to read the map, as it doesnt make pressure (in the higher PRs) efficiently. Which again is crucial for making horsepower with diesel fuel.
 
Old 03-08-2019, 08:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwentzler View Post
I knew where the logic was coming from, however I still dont agree. The reason it works on sled pull setup as a single, has to do more with the fact it spools quicker on our relatively small displacement engines. Diesel fuel is more efficient at making power at lower rpm, so quicker spool typically leads to more power. This is also demonstrated by testing with difference turbine housings on the same turbine, smallest housing usually makes most power.

The sxe map DOES work in real life, just not on a diesel as a single. This is obvious if you know how to read the map, as it doesnt make pressure (in the higher PRs) efficiently. Which again is crucial for making horsepower with diesel fuel.
Yes, I should have specified that the SXE S400 stuff doesn’t work well in a diesel application. They are primarily designed for the turbo gas world, ie, high flow, relatively low pressure.
 
Old 03-08-2019, 11:52 AM   #18
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Seen more power with a s500/110/1.15 t6 then a 488/96/1.32 fed by a 72
So do you think I will be hurting myself with the 83/1.0 housing? Just wondering cuz I found a decent deal from a buddy with a 72/83/.90 is the main reason why I ask about it. But if I'm actually going to be hurting myself then I might as well get the 87.1.0
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:54 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Chevyguy15 View Post
72/87/1.0 t4

491/101/1.32 t6

Is a nasty setup! Has made over 1500 hp
Wrong quote...Jesus haha
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwentzler View Post
The reason it works on sled pull setup as a single, has to do more with the fact it spools quicker on our relatively small displacement engines. Diesel fuel is more efficient at making power at lower rpm, so quicker spool typically leads to more power.
How is this relevant when the engine is dynoed on a loaded negative sweep? Your assumption does not hold water in the real world, especially if you have spent much time around an engine dyno.

The big difference between the 74/83mm and 82/87mm in regards to flow is not the wheel size itself, or the turbine AR, it's the difference in the diffuser.
 
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