Rocky Top Diesel Shootout

Sad.
I don't know what happened, but this mentions the truck never slowed down. Perhaps we'll never know the actual cause, but we all know the dangers of the sport.

Rumor mill saying his roll cage was sketchy.


So then how he pass tech?

Multiple questions. Nobody wants to elaborate.

Fkn sucks, how bout to get info out to other racers so we can learn from our departed brethern.

Really sucks.

Wtf

Not trying to start anysort of shit storm, looking to get the cause out there to help other racers. This is a fkn terrible circumstance to be ignored.

Man it’s people talking shit I’m sure. Dude was a garage builder so I’d bet it wasn’t up to par for some of these Facebook professionals. He passed tech so that’s that.

Dude ran smooth out the back half. Them cages ain’t fuckin bomb proof. We all know the risk when the tree drops green.

The only people owed an explanation are his mom, dad and wife as far as I’m concerned.

bateman said:

The only people owed an explanation are his mom, dad and wife as far as I’m concerned.

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Spot the fuck on.

Very true. I wasn't trying to insinuate that he'd done anything wrong, with the build or the driving, with my prior post. Just more of how do we minimize this risk going forward?
Which I'm still on the pinion brake idea, perhaps one at each end of the driveshaft? On there own circuit, could they be setup as an "e-stop" of sorts? Thinking something along the lines of a Co2 pressured system, that to use you just release the Co2 to pressure the brake fluid clamping the calipers, no pedal or lever to hold the pressure with, just the sealed system on the Co2 and brake fluid?

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Saw this on FB, right in the feels.


My gut response for auto equipped diesels is a normally open dump valve within the transmission that when power is cut it dumps a circuit to make a 'neutral'. of course the engine is toast but I feel like the concept is sound

J-Pipes said:

Very true. I wasn't trying to insinuate that he'd done anything wrong, with the build or the driving, with my prior post. Just more of how do we minimize this risk going forward?
Which I'm still on the pinion brake idea, perhaps one at each end of the driveshaft? On there own circuit, could they be setup as an "e-stop" of sorts? Thinking something along the lines of a Co2 pressured system, that to use you just release the Co2 to pressure the brake fluid clamping the calipers, no pedal or lever to hold the pressure with, just the sealed system on the Co2 and brake fluid?

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I don't think there's any feasible brake system out there that's going to stop any of these drag racers' engines if they're running away/ stuck at wot.

Few years ago PDD had a runaway engine on the track and Todd stuck it in neutral to get stopped. Like Hurley said, the engine was toast. But Todd isn't.

I won't begin to pretend that I know about all the safety systems on these drag trucks. I don't know if they have guillotines, extra brakes, etc etc......however, I'm not sure that any amount of built in safety would contain every run-away event. When you cross the finish line at umpteen million miles an hour, will you really have time and think "shit, I'm running away, I need to do this this this and this". I would imagine panic sets in and lots of cuss words are said.

Like I say, I don't know. Do you racers have a checklists you practice? Do you have runaway event procedures? Do you cycle through them every time down the track?

I do agree that whatever happened needs investigated and released so others can learn from the event....but that's probably just the curious part of me talking.

I've never been to that dragstrip, so out of curiosity I checked it out on goggle maps. I was wondering how a truck could go airborne, hit a tree, and end up in a creek. I wanted to see how much sand was there, and I see there is not much. A 4WD truck running at full tilt had no chance of getting stopped at top end in my opinion.
Safety rules are only as good as the tech inspector, and sanctioning diesel drag racing has proven to be a nightmare. To top that off, the continual increase in HP and speed makes last years accident mitigation garbage. And so on...

The potential for diesel engine runaway is so much greater than gasoline power. The only way to shut one down, is to blow it up, but then comes the fire. When I lived and worked next to an emergency diesel engine (generator), our last line of defense in the rule book was to spray CO2 into the intake.

J-Pipes said:

Very true. I wasn't trying to insinuate that he'd done anything wrong, with the build or the driving, with my prior post. Just more of how do we minimize this risk going forward?
Which I'm still on the pinion brake idea, perhaps one at each end of the driveshaft? On there own circuit, could they be setup as an "e-stop" of sorts? Thinking something along the lines of a Co2 pressured system, that to use you just release the Co2 to pressure the brake fluid clamping the calipers, no pedal or lever to hold the pressure with, just the sealed system on the Co2 and brake fluid?

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The issue with that suggestion is that would be an immediate, binary application of the pinion brake(s) which would either cause the truck to skid or the driveshaft(s) and pinion to shear. JMHO though.

4x4dually said:

I won't begin to pretend that I know about all the safety systems on these drag trucks. I don't know if they have guillotines, extra brakes, etc etc......however, I'm not sure that any amount of built in safety would contain every run-away event. When you cross the finish line at umpteen million miles an hour, will you really have time and think "shit, I'm running away, I need to do this this this and this". I would imagine panic sets in and lots of cuss words are said.

Like I say, I don't know. Do you racers have a checklists you practice? Do you have runaway event procedures? Do you cycle through them every time down the track?

I do agree that whatever happened needs investigated and released so others can learn from the event....but that's probably just the curious part of me talking.

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I personally haven't put any thought into it. My personal practice is to hold the skinny pedal to the wood, cross the beams, pump the brakes and start downshifting.

FWIW, I also don't get how a CR runs away. A factory ECM processor can't handle more than 5000 to 5200 rpm. However, if an aftermarket Bosch or Motec unit is used, I don't know what they can or cannot support.

Snedge said:

I've never been to that dragstrip, so out of curiosity I checked it out on goggle maps. I was wondering how a truck could go airborne, hit a tree, and end up in a creek. I wanted to see how much sand was there, and I see there is not much. A 4WD truck running at full tilt had no chance of getting stopped at top end in my opinion.
Safety rules are only as good as the tech inspector, and sanctioning diesel drag racing has proven to be a nightmare. To top that off, the continual increase in HP and speed makes last years accident mitigation garbage. And so on...

The potential for diesel engine runaway is so much greater than gasoline power. The only way to shut one down, is to blow it up, but then comes the fire. When I lived and worked next to an emergency diesel engine (generator), our last line of defense in the rule book was to spray CO2 into the intake.

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I had never been to Crossville or RTDS until this year. I looked at the satellite and saw how short the track and run off were. I also saw that a bridge existed to cross a creek and that I would have to drive through "vendor alley" to get to the track. Because of what I saw, I packed extra brake hardware and all of the necessary tools...

We got there Friday night, the pit area was garbage for the 6.70 and slower guys. Wet, soggy gravel. I left the truck on the trailer and started walking around visiting and seeing what was going on. We watched a partial round of qualifications for the gas cars and the 5.90 guys. Sprinkles started, racing was stopped, we left to go check into the hotel and find supper. Ended up not returning to the track until Saturday morning to pick up the truck, trailer and race truck to head home.

RD TRCTR said:

FWIW, I also don't get how a CR runs away. A factory ECM processor can't handle more than 5000 to 5200 rpm. However, if an aftermarket Bosch or Motec unit is used, I don't know what they can or cannot support.

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I'm not saying this is what happened.


One of the practices I've seen with the common rail is to plug the rail relief valve, and that scares the hell out of me. Folks do this to allow fuel pressure inside the rail to climb well over 26000 psi limit.
All well and good until an injector nozzle cracks, burns through a piston like a torch, and allows oil to become the combustion agent. You can shut the fuel off at this point and the engine cares not.
That's just one way the CR engine runs away. Under all the electronic controls, it's still an internal combustion engine.

Or a turbo blows and floods the intake with oil. Air shutoff is all that'll stop it.

Snedge said:

I'm not saying this is what happened.


One of the practices I've seen with the common rail is to plug the rail relief valve, and that scares the hell out of me. Folks do this to allow fuel pressure inside the rail to climb well over 26000 psi limit.
All well and good until an injector nozzle cracks, burns through a piston like a torch, and allows oil to become the combustion agent. You can shut the fuel off at this point and the engine cares not.
That's just one way the CR engine runs away. Under all the electronic controls, it's still an internal combustion engine.

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It's a safe assumption that nobody at the 6.70 level and above is using a rail plug. The injectors are far to expensive to let get pounded by rail spike. All of the reputable injector manufacturers have PRV that are calibrated to 29-32k lbs of rail.

RD TRCTR said:

The issue with that suggestion is that would be an immediate, binary application of the pinion brake(s) which would either cause the truck to skid or the driveshaft(s) and pinion to shear. JMHO though.

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I understand that, that's why I suggested it. Not as a every pass brake, but a last resort emergency if the regular brakes fail.

I mean this could all be a moot point of sorts, for all we know, there may have not been any sort of mechanical failure at all, could have been some freak fluke accident of the driver passing out for some reason?

I think most, all, of us are coming from a sincere place of trying to help the community in general to brainstorm ideas to help minimize these type of risks going forward.

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Phooker said:

It's a safe assumption that nobody at the 6.70 level and above is using a rail plug. The injectors are far to expensive to let get pounded by rail spike. All of the reputable injector manufacturers have PRV that are calibrated to 29-32k lbs of rail.

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I agree, that's why I said "I'm not saying that's what happened".
Hell Phil, we have no idea what really went down. I was just pointing out one of many avenues that may cause CR run away.

Snedge said:

I agree, that's why I said "I'm not saying that's what happened".
Hell Phil, we have no idea what really went down. I was just pointing out one of many avenues that may cause CR run away.

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Yea, just figured I'd let you know that there exists a better option than a cap.

Phooker said:

Yea, just figured I'd let you know that there exists a better option than a cap.

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Gotcha. As I mentioned, I'm not a fan of capping the rail, even for the purpose of troubleshooting we don't do it here.

Now leave me alone, don't make me come down there. :hehe:

A fellow I work with runs NHRA Super Gas and has raced at Crossville a lot. He, of course has a chute but says he rarely deploys it. His car may not weigh what that truck does, I don't know.

BigPapa said:

A fellow I work with runs NHRA Super Gas and has raced at Crossville a lot. He, of course has a chute but says he rarely deploys it. His car may not weigh what that truck does, I don't know.

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I see how running 1/8th mile the track allows for a long shut down or coast to stop when everything goes well.

Chutes don't do much of anything under 100mph.

Looking at the vid I saw, looked like he got out of it, then about a half second later black smoke and looked to accelerate.