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Old 07-04-2021, 11:57 AM   #1
joestewart

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47RE Experts - Rebuilding Overdrive - Next question

I am taking measurements to determine the thickness of the #10 thrust bearing plate that I should use.

I am using tool #6311 as a straight edge. I have already measured the thickness of my #6311 and it is 0.5 inches, as it should be.

I took four measurements at 90 degrees apart, as detailed in the ASTG manual.

My measurements are: 1.965, 1.969, 1.9705 and 1.9715.

These measurements fall OUTSIDE OF ALL THE RANGES GIVEN ON PAGE 135 OF THE ASTG MANUAL (see attached image).

And of course, the ASTG manual does not tell you what to do when this happens.

I am thinking that this measurement, in part, depends on stack thickness. I used 10 frictions and 9 steels.

Otherwise, I'm pretty sure that I installed everything correctly.

I did a quick internet search. I'm sure the answer to this question has been posted a million times, but I'm having trouble readily locating a relevant thread.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what the proper remedial action should be in this scenario?
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File Type: jpg Page 135 from ASTG manual.jpg (284.3 KB, 0 views)
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File Type: jpg IMG_2808.JPG (176.6 KB, 0 views)
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Old 07-05-2021, 11:54 AM   #2
T-MAN
 
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Did you check page 145 in latest ATSG pro manual?
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Old 07-05-2021, 01:28 PM   #3
joestewart

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"Pro Manual"? No, I did not. I am a novice and was not aware of the existence of a "pro manual". I will have to obtain a copy. In the meantime, would you be able to scan page 145 and post?
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Old 07-05-2021, 04:02 PM   #4
T-MAN
 
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I would pull it back apart and check for the bearing that rides on the planet, If that's in place i would make sure the first plate you put on the stack has the recess set so it allows for the clutches to drop lower not raise up, its fits both ways and works one... im guessing 10 clutches came out and you reused the bottom and top plate. If its none of the above I'm not sure where to go next
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:04 PM   #5
joestewart

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T-Man, thanks. Your help is greatly appreciated. Yes, I did remove 10 frictions and 9 steels from the original unit that I had burned up. I did reuse the top and bottom plates and I did make sure that the bottom plate was oriented correctly as the instructions state in the ASTG manual.

I discovered that they make two different thicknesses of top plate, and I have taken a photo of the thin one next to the original thick one. Here is a link to the thinner plate:

Amazon.com: Aftermarket 027762J540 Pressure Plate, Overdrive: Automotive

Question: Have you ever used this thinner top plate in a 47RE?

This thinner top plate, in theory, should reduce my stack thickness and possibly bring my measurement into conformity with the values seen in the table on page 135.

I have not installed mine yet, but I will this weekend and see if it has any effect. Thanks again.
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Old 08-08-2021, 12:53 PM   #6
joestewart

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Here is my latest update. This rebuild is moving slowly - no hurry since I have a working transmission in my truck (which is my daily driver).

Anyway, I purchased the thinner "reaction plate" for the OD direct clutch pack. This thinner plate is the .085" step to .215".

Using this thinner plate, I was able to install nine frictions and eight steels. The measurement I am getting (using the 0.5" thick bar and measuring with a caliper to the clutch hub thrust bearing surface) is 1.849" - which is within the ranges given in the table on page 135 of the ASTG manual.

But there SHOULD be 10 frictions and nine steels in this overdrive.

If I add one more steel and one more friction (the one steel and friction have a combined thickness of .132"), this will put me OUT OF THE RANGES given in the ASTG manual.

Question to the 47RE rebuilders here: Have you EVER built a 47RE overdrive for a Cummins application in its stock configuration that contained only 9 frictions and 8 steels in the OD direct clutch pack?

It seems to me that as long as the clearance is acceptable, then it should work fine.

But what is troubling me is that 10 frictions and 9 steels SHOULD fit in there without any hitches. Any input greatly appreciated!
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Old 08-24-2021, 08:05 PM   #7
joestewart

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OK, I figured out what I did wrong and want to post the follow up. Thank you to all who have responded to this thread.

I knew that my clutch stack was too thick when I installed 10 friction discs and 9 steels, as detailed above, but I did not know the reason why.

Then I found an online copy of the ASTG manual for the 47RH. The link is here:

https://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content...alogs/42RH.pdf

On page 86 of that manual, there was the information that I needed. See also pages 87-90 for most helpful information. See attached copy of page 86 below.

I found out that there are two different thicknesses of steel plates available for the overdrive direct clutch pack: The “1st design” is .070” thick and the “2nd design is .055” thick. (Note that this info IS in the 47RE manual on page 103, but it is in tabular form and the helpful text detailing this difference is NOT present in the 47RE manual).

After reading this, I measured the thickness of the plates that were included in my rebuild kit and they were the .070” thick ones – the WRONG ones for the OD direct clutch pack configured for the Cummins diesel application.

I purchased some .055” thick steels and installed them and all is well now. Thank you!

It is a curious thing > I had telephoned the guy who sold me this rebuild kit a few months ago (I will not mention any names of companies, but I will tell you that this company holds a prominent “internet presence” when you use the search engines for 47RE parts). I telephoned him to complain that he only sent me 9 friction discs and 8 steels for my OD direct clutch pack (now I know the reason why – he sent me a rebuild kit for some configuration OTHER than for the Cummins diesel set up). He never mentioned this possibility nor did he mention that the steel plates that he sent may be too thick – scoundrel!

Live and learn, I guess.

But happily, now I can proceed with my rebuild. Thank you again!
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Old 08-25-2021, 12:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestewart View Post
OK, I figured out what I did wrong and want to post the follow up. Thank you to all who have responded to this thread.

I knew that my clutch stack was too thick when I installed 10 friction discs and 9 steels, as detailed above, but I did not know the reason why.

Then I found an online copy of the ASTG manual for the 47RH. The link is here:

https://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content...alogs/42RH.pdf

On page 86 of that manual, there was the information that I needed. See also pages 87-90 for most helpful information. See attached copy of page 86 below.

I found out that there are two different thicknesses of steel plates available for the overdrive direct clutch pack: The “1st design” is .070” thick and the “2nd design is .055” thick. (Note that this info IS in the 47RE manual on page 103, but it is in tabular form and the helpful text detailing this difference is NOT present in the 47RE manual).

After reading this, I measured the thickness of the plates that were included in my rebuild kit and they were the .070” thick ones – the WRONG ones for the OD direct clutch pack configured for the Cummins diesel application.

I purchased some .055” thick steels and installed them and all is well now. Thank you!

It is a curious thing > I had telephoned the guy who sold me this rebuild kit a few months ago (I will not mention any names of companies, but I will tell you that this company holds a prominent “internet presence” when you use the search engines for 47RE parts). I telephoned him to complain that he only sent me 9 friction discs and 8 steels for my OD direct clutch pack (now I know the reason why – he sent me a rebuild kit for some configuration OTHER than for the Cummins diesel set up). He never mentioned this possibility nor did he mention that the steel plates that he sent may be too thick – scoundrel!

Live and learn, I guess.

But happily, now I can proceed with my rebuild. Thank you again!
Thanks for posting back. If you ever need any trans parts I've always used Jim at built right transmissions out of Louisiana. He always answers when you have questions and he ships quick.
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Old 09-03-2021, 05:27 PM   #9
Tobin
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestewart View Post
OK, I figured out what I did wrong and want to post the follow up. Thank you to all who have responded to this thread.

I knew that my clutch stack was too thick when I installed 10 friction discs and 9 steels, as detailed above, but I did not know the reason why.

Then I found an online copy of the ASTG manual for the 47RH. The link is here:

https://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content...alogs/42RH.pdf

On page 86 of that manual, there was the information that I needed. See also pages 87-90 for most helpful information. See attached copy of page 86 below.

I found out that there are two different thicknesses of steel plates available for the overdrive direct clutch pack: The “1st design” is .070” thick and the “2nd design is .055” thick. (Note that this info IS in the 47RE manual on page 103, but it is in tabular form and the helpful text detailing this difference is NOT present in the 47RE manual).

After reading this, I measured the thickness of the plates that were included in my rebuild kit and they were the .070” thick ones – the WRONG ones for the OD direct clutch pack configured for the Cummins diesel application.

I purchased some .055” thick steels and installed them and all is well now. Thank you!

It is a curious thing > I had telephoned the guy who sold me this rebuild kit a few months ago (I will not mention any names of companies, but I will tell you that this company holds a prominent “internet presence” when you use the search engines for 47RE parts). I telephoned him to complain that he only sent me 9 friction discs and 8 steels for my OD direct clutch pack (now I know the reason why – he sent me a rebuild kit for some configuration OTHER than for the Cummins diesel set up). He never mentioned this possibility nor did he mention that the steel plates that he sent may be too thick – scoundrel!

Live and learn, I guess.

But happily, now I can proceed with my rebuild. Thank you again!
This was a big help, I just rebuilt a 47RH that someone else had gone through and was getting low numbers, wasn't aware of the two different designs on the OD clutch setup. Thanks a million!
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Old 09-03-2021, 10:36 PM   #10
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I have 8 frictions and 7 of the 0.070" steels with the thin (0.085") pressure plate. I need the thicker (0.215") pressure plate, BUT I think I can just add a extra steel and friction and get where I want. My math says it will only be 0.004" thicker.

This is a low budget build. Anyone ever mix used clutches/steels together?
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