Lowering a 4x4 correctly

Looking for links/info/pics of lowered 4x4's that are street driven. I've done my compd searching and nothing came up in the dodge sections.

The rear is lowered about 2" by flipping the blocks around and I did remove that over load spring when the cal-tracks were installed.

I'd like to lower the entire truck another 2 inches.

The current state of things:

My control arms are original and clunking.

I have rancho 9000 shocks and I'm fine with replacing them with correctly sized ones

The main tie-rod was replaced, the one that is connected to the steering box, the other one is original but still tight.

Ball joints (and hubs and axle joints) are relatively new.

Drive shafts are all balanced and rebuilt this past summer. I'm fine with modifying the front one if necessary


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So, since I need to replace all the control arms, I could get adjust able ones or ones that are the correct length. New front springs. New shorter u-bolts for the rear and remove a few leafs. New shocks.

What else am I missing and which brands should I be looking for deals on over this winter?

Go ahead....cut off it nuts.


:hehe:

4x4dually said:

Go ahead....cut off it nuts.


:hehe:

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oke:

Chase you must regret making that truck full racetruck when you see pics of it in that^ form

drool....


every once in a while I think of bringing mine lower in the rear, then someone goes "how much is it lifted?" and I say, its not, its a 1ton.

I'd upgrade to 7/16" u-bolts, but just mark and cut them after the install and then clean them up.
Removing blocks and making your own blocks for the exact right height would probably be your best bet. You could even stack 3/8" plates of steel, but make sure you put a pin through them to connect them to your leaf packs.

On the front, I think adjustable control arms would be best, or just make some custom ones. When I did my lift, I did a lot of measuring, then found some bushings and made my own. It works perfect, but I wouldnt mind being able to adjust axle position and caster.
I would also either buy new springs and shocks (potentially with tower deletes since you'll have a lot less travel) or grab some coilovers.
Your sway bar end links will have to be modified or replaced with correct sized ones.
Your steering should be fine, but stock track bars are junk and most aftermarket ones might not fit with the truck being that low, however, you dont need the full length of the stock track bar if you are keeping very little travel, and could potentially make a half the length one.

Your drive shafts with actually be happier, so no worries there.

op:

Are you looking for just lowering? Or softening it to lower it ? I had a suspension setup drawn out for a 4wd project I was gonna do, and had all but 3 leafs pulled out of the rear. And I was gonna do an AFCO shock for the rear that was tunable so I could change valving and shim stack to compensate compression dampening/rebound. Gave the truck a 4" static drop from stock, and with the valving and shim changing could make it ride really well as well as perform really well at the track. Or just do the fully adjustable version.

The Ranchos are externally adjustable too, I guess I never looked into if you could do valve changes or anything on them, like you can the AFCOs?

murphy41 said:

Are you looking for just lowering? Or softening it to lower it ? I had a suspension setup drawn out for a 4wd project I was gonna do, and had all but 3 leafs pulled out of the rear. And I was gonna do an AFCO shock for the rear that was tunable so I could change valving and shim stack to compensate compression dampening/rebound. Gave the truck a 4" static drop from stock, and with the valving and shim changing could make it ride really well as well as perform really well at the track. Or just do the fully adjustable version.

The Ranchos are externally adjustable too, I guess I never looked into if you could do valve changes or anything on them, like you can the AFCOs?

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I was just talking about hard parts. Tuning spring rates and shocks is a whole other ball game and definitely takes time to get it right. I suggested coilovers because you can easily find different spring rates (or add two different ones, or progressive), height can be changed by the adjustment nut instead of just spring size/rate, and most are adjustable for dampening/rebound.

If you start tuning your suspension, make sure you take it for a 'spirited drive' first. Shocks need to be tuned warm because they change properties more than you'd think from cold to warmed up.

CorneliusRox said:

I was just talking about hard parts. Tuning spring rates and shocks is a whole other ball game and definitely takes time to get it right. I suggested coilovers because you can easily find different spring rates (or add two different ones, or progressive), height can be changed by the adjustment nut instead of just spring size/rate, and most are adjustable for dampening/rebound.

If you start tuning your suspension, make sure you take it for a 'spirited drive' first. Shocks need to be tuned warm because they change properties more than you'd think from cold to warmed up.

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That's what I was mainly asking. How technical does he wanna get ? Just bolt ons to lower, or a good tuned setup. Lowering a truck AND getting a smooth ride/performance takes tuning a setup. I've looked into suspension stuff a lot over the past two weeks, and I'm thankful I have a 2wd. With how heavy these trucks are on the front, I've read and heard that true coil overs tend not to react as fast as the spring/shock setup. Hense a choppy, harsh ride like most 4wd tend to ride anyway. Where the spring mounted separately than the shock performs better. Rather than being mounted on the shock itself. Apparently there is a difference. NOW, how true all that is, I'm not sure. Its just stuff Ive read and heard researching it.

Looking to enhance cornering autocross style. Yeah. sounds stupid for a long box quad cab, but what the heck! Drag racing is going to be tire limited regardless so if I loose a little on the 60 to help out the turns, that'll be fine. The goal is to get a happy medium for both and just drive the stupid thing.

Lowering it will fill the wheel well a little and make the look more complete.

Keep in mind folks, I'm a suspension newbie. I managed to adjust the rachno's and caltracks to hook very well and it 60's in the ballpark that most street tire trucks so so I can't be that far off. But this is a little over my head ATM..

I'd like to avoid a coil over and keep it simple unless it's going to be very counter productive. Avoiding adjustable specifically home made control arms is something I'd like to do. A complete kit or something close to piece together would be awesome.

Rich suggested McGaughys, but they do not have a 2500/3500 4x4 lowering kit.

Thanks for the tip on the sway bar endlinks and other components. Keep the info coming folks!

I removed some leafs in the rear, did Cal-Tracs, removed the overload, and cut the front coils. I had intended to do that only temporarily, but it feels just fine, drives just fine, etc... I also went with shorter shocks all the way around.

JasonCzerak said:

Looking to enhance cornering autocross style. Yeah. sounds stupid for a long box quad cab, but what the heck! Drag racing is going to be tire limited regardless so if I loose a little on the 60 to help out the turns, that'll be fine. The goal is to get a happy medium for both and just drive the stupid thing.

Lowering it will fill the wheel well a little and make the look more complete.

Keep in mind folks, I'm a suspension newbie. I managed to adjust the rachno's and caltracks to hook very well and it 60's in the ballpark that most street tire trucks so so I can't be that far off. But this is a little over my head ATM..

I'd like to avoid a coil over and keep it simple unless it's going to be very counter productive. Avoiding adjustable specifically home made control arms is something I'd like to do. A complete kit or something close to piece together would be awesome.

Rich suggested McGaughys, but they do not have a 2500/3500 4x4 lowering kit.

Thanks for the tip on the sway bar endlinks and other components. Keep the info coming folks!

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A lot of cornering such as autocross will have more to do with alignment as well. Toe in, camber, sway bar angle etc.

murphy41 said:

A lot of cornering such as autocross will have more to do with alignment as well. Toe in, camber, sway bar angle etc.

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x2.

I know quite a bit about that stuff, and here is a little advice.

You're going to want a solid front sway bar (definitely stiffer than stock), probably add a rear one as well. In 2wd you can manage no rear sway because of the stiffness of the leafs, but in 4wd you'd definitely want one, and honestly, it'd make 2wd feel better too.

Stiffer coils would be good. You usually want relatively loose coils for drag racing and relatively stiff for slalom. You can get somewhat the best of both worlds by using progressive springs (soft the first inch, hard the rest).

In drag racing, you can use your sway bars with adjustable end links to set tension already so when the engine tries to twist the frame, your suspension is already counteracting it and keeping the tires planted. In slalom you would want to sway bar preload because you are constantly going back and forth and you wouldnt want one direction getting favor over the other.

For alignment, you are going to want about .16deg total toe in. For caster, you ideally would want zero cross caster, but for street driving, I like .3deg so that it fights road crown and keeps you going straight. If you want to get the cool ball joints that allow you to adjust camber, I like -.8 to -1.2deg for a good mix between street driving and having fun, then -2deg for pretty fast twisties, and -3.5 for full on slalom racing.
A slight toe in on the rear axle will actually help your acceleration off the line without blowing the tires off, but you'd have to get your axle bent for that and that is something I personally wouldnt do.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head right now, but I'm pretty tired. I might think of more later.

ahale2772 said:

Chase you must regret making that truck full racetruck when you see pics of it in that^ form

drool....


every once in a while I think of bringing mine lower in the rear, then someone goes "how much is it lifted?" and I say, its not, its a 1ton.

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Well, when it runs I never regret where I have gone with it...When its broken, I miss how it was then I see pictures like this and I say SIKE.



....back on track, I have double adjustable QA1 shocks that I wont be using anymore for the front of the truck Jason. They work with your factory shock tower and I removed 2.5 full coils. Some 1500 springs would be fine for you. In the rear I have ran a full leaf pack, overload removed, everything removed except 2 leafs and a 3-link setup with coil overs. If your wanting optimum performance put coil overs on front and rear...coil over is king. If your wanting it to be ok for the street and still be able to cut 1.6x 60's just hack some coils out of the front, remove everything except 2-3 leafs in the rear and put double adjustable QA1's on all the corners and tune to what you like.

longhorn859 said:

....back on track, I have double adjustable QA1 shocks that I wont be using anymore for the front of the truck Jason. They work with your factory shock tower and I removed 2.5 full coils. Some 1500 springs would be fine for you. In the rear I have ran a full leaf pack, overload removed, everything removed except 2 leafs and a 3-link setup with coil overs. If your wanting optimum performance put coil overs on front and rear...coil over is king. If your wanting it to be ok for the street and still be able to cut 1.6x 60's just hack some coils out of the front, remove everything except 2-3 leafs in the rear and put double adjustable QA1's on all the corners and tune to what you like.

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This is more or less what I saying. Depends on how technical you wanna get. I personally like the 3-leaf setup rear, half ton front springs and double adjustable all the way around, and would suite very well.

I just cut the stock coils for now (1 full wrap) till I get to the desired ride height in the front once I get the block and transmission back in the truck. Once I find the correct height I'll get some coils made that fit correctly. As for the control arms I'm running the adjustable kore arms I had from my lift at stock lengths for now.

The rear has all but 2 leafs and one zero rate removed and running a 2" drop shackle from airbagit.com

The tires in the picture are 33" Toyo MT's that are slick as greased own sh*t for reference

With cutting one coil out of the front, does the track bar need to be modified?

When I did mine all I did was remove the rear blocks and cut one full coil from the front coils and then just put some 2wd length shocks on. I would love to get my hands on some QA1's.

Beautiful truck.

Replaced the rear block with 1in one, 1500 springs in the front, stock shocks.


Where can I get QA1's and get the right size???


I think I need to have my drive shaft cut some