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Old 07-29-2018, 03:14 PM   #1
Cummins Driver
 
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93 d250 - What it take to run 14's through the 1/4?

Hey guys. Recently picked up a 93 D250 A518 club cab truck. Was kind of looking for a single cab to play with but this will serve as a multi purpose truck so I was ok with the extra cab room. As of right now this truck is totally stock. Pump has never been touched, and the exhaust/muffler is all still original. Engine sounds super healthy and the trans felt solid on the short test drive and the fluid looked fine as well. I owned a 91 W250 for a short time but never really messed with the pump. I believe it had the stock fuel pin rotated and it ran pretty decent considering that was all that was done to it. But Im thinking about possibly playing with this one some. I would like to see 14's out of it through the 1/4 on street tires, but im not sure what it would take. Im used to 4wd trucks so Im not sure what kind of 60' time can be expected out of this boat that I think has a single track rear at the moment.

I figure a basic game plan would be to do all the normal pump mods including a fuel pin, 3200 (or 3800?) GSK, and a transgo shift kit and see where im at there. I would think that it might run 15's with those mods, but im not sure as i've not messed with a ve a lot and i don't know what the truck weighs. Also, I think im wanting to keep the muffler on for the time being and im not sure how restrictive that will be. Looking at the stock air filter I would think it wouldn't be too restrictive either, but that's why i'm here asking questions.

So what on top of what I have mentioned above would be needed to break into the 14's? Would I need something like caltracs to get it to hook better on street tires? Basically just wanting it to be a little bit of a sleeper and fun to drive while not sacrificing reliability too much as ill still be making some trips and driving the truck. This likely wont happen quickly as I have some body work to fix and some other minor work to do to the truck first, just planning for down the road. Thanks for any help/suggestions.
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94 Dodge 2500 4x4 Reg Cab
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:55 AM   #2
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If I remember right, I think those weigh around 5600, which would mean that you'd need about 350rwhp (to be safe) if you wanted to run fairly tractionless 14s......I'd do injectors, timing, intake and exhaust, and maybe try to get some sort of decent tire on there. My 89 did a 2.1 60ft with a peg legger and Hoosier Quicktimes but I could never get a decent burnout. I'd expect 2.3 or worse with the pizza cutters.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:13 AM   #3
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Lift pump , fuel pin, 3200 spring , 5x.018 injectors and s363 sxe is a setup I just done that made 434hp in my shop ..
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:17 AM   #4
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It's about how light you can make the first gen 4800-5000 lbs can be done easily
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:43 AM   #5
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Rich, could you tune that truck to run pretty clean? That sounds like a lot of injector.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:18 AM   #6
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Truck is race only .. Also adding nos with a goal of 600 hp out of 12mm ve , if clean exhaust was the issue then a common rail would be a better choice .

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Old 09-24-2018, 11:25 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by diesel_importer View Post
Rich, could you tune that truck to run pretty clean? That sounds like a lot of injector.
VE's run larger injectors. That's really not too terribly big.

I'm sure you could get into the 14's with just a turbo (s360 or larger), fuel pin, gov springs, and injectors.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:28 AM   #8
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NOS technically= more air, which= more fuel needed.
The VE isn't known for moving fuel reliably much above ~400 horsepower, without some fancy fuel delivery work to the injection pump.



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Old 09-25-2018, 10:43 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by CorneliusRox View Post
VE's run larger injectors. That's really not too terribly big.

I'm sure you could get into the 14's with just a turbo (s360 or larger), fuel pin, gov springs, and injectors.
I don't even think you'd really need a turbo if everything else was optimized....I know it's apples to oranges but my Second gen with no fuel made 447rwhp with a 57mm A3K.
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Old 09-25-2018, 10:45 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Rich dzl View Post
Truck is race only .. Also adding nos with a goal of 600 hp out of 12mm ve , if clean exhaust was the issue then a common rail would be a better choice .
I think you'll get it! I know Tom Collins back in the day made 587 with nitrous and water meth. That was only with 5x14s too, and through a 727. Of course the nitrous and w/m is a little sketchy
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Old 09-25-2018, 11:41 AM   #11
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I don't even think you'd really need a turbo if everything else was optimized....I know it's apples to oranges but my Second gen with no fuel made 447rwhp with a 57mm A3K.
I hear ya. I think you're right, but the older I get, the less appetizing it is to spend tons of hours on port, polish, cam, valve job, fuel flow, tuning, pop pressure, etc... (not to mention suspension, weight reduction, NOS)
Plus it's kind of fun to just slap a few parts together and make it go fast. Take the next year to mess with tweaking/tuning!
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Old 09-25-2018, 10:08 PM   #12
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Well this thread took off all of a sudden

JQmile I was also thinking around 350hp would probably get it done. I wasnt real sure what the truck would weigh though.

Since I posted i've been driving the truck a fair amount. Did an oil change, carrier bearing, U joint, some other maintenance. Cruise and A/C even work on the old girl Took it on a 230 mile round trip hauling the side by sides and really enjoyed driving it. I guess I just like old trucks.

They're having "grudge wars" at the drag strip Saturday night providing the weather is decent. I haven't touched the pump yet but if it works out I may go and try to run it bone stock to get some baseline passes in. Its not fast but its definitely not the worst running stock truck i've ever driven.

Traction is going to be a big issue if I decide to try to ever make a decent pass. You can build some boost and leave one black mark for probably 20 feet even with the stock fueling. A limited slip would help it a ton

I was thinking a stock turbo should be sufficient to run 14s if a person had some traction. Im not sure the stock injectors will be up to it from what im reading though. Im also not convinced I want to get rid of the factory exhaust yet. Everything else I have is loud. This thing would be a real sleeper if it ran 14's with the stock exhaust If i get some baseline runs in I would like to do a fuel pin and 3800 spring with the normal pump tweaks and then see where I stand after those upgrades and go from there.

Thanks for the input. I will update if I do make it to the drag strip Saturday night.
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Old 09-25-2018, 11:07 PM   #13
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Lift pump! The stock one is about as useful as a bull with tittz.

Auto truck is gonna have the massive exhaust housing. A 351 is a popular upgrade and cheap. There are better options but typically when a fellow is messing with a square body is a budget kinda thing.

3800 spring and move the pivot to the inner hole.

Make sure youíre getting ďfull throttleĒ by adjusting the stop. Basic pump mod stuff.

Jack the case pressure, a small tap will do..

Injectors you have a million options. Infinite performance always gets my vote but it depends on budget.

Bump the timing a bit OR order a timing spacer. I suggest the second but last I read M&H was waiting on XXX amount of orders before he made another run. Iíve heard tell there is a dude on fake book making some but I donít really know if thatís still a thing?

Did I mention doing a lift pump before anything?

If itís just a FUN truck weld the diff. If not, best of luck tracking down a power lock carrier. If you do add a couple clutches and whut knot..

As to the muffler thing, if you go to the bumper itís not horribly loud. Iím not sure how restrictive the factory muff is, Iíve never kept one longer than the drive home.

The factory air box moves okay air but cuttings few holes on the bottom side doesnít cost anything besides time and your favorite beer.

Then put that old gal on a diet.

You should also do a lift pump.....
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Old 09-26-2018, 01:08 AM   #14
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You'll need injectors for sure. I'd run with the stock turbo for a while and see how you like it. Shoot I made 301rwhp with a non-intercooled 50mm turbo. I'd expect stock times to be pretty crappy. My guess is 17.46 lol.
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Old 09-26-2018, 01:25 AM   #15
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Oh just as an aside, make sure you get tires that are plenty tall if you do get any type of cheater slicks. I got a set of 26x10's on a deal and could only build about 20psi at the top of first gear. The coolest sleeper tires to get by far are circle track retreads. I had a set on a sleeper Mustang and I used to be able to dump the clutch at 4,000 and hook on the street. Plus everyone asks why you're running "snow tires" to race.
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:16 PM   #16
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Seems I heard something about needing a better lift pump? I dont know

It does have a newer stock lift pump on it. At what point is a better pump needed? Is the stock one sufficient for stock injectors?

I have an HE351 on my 94. I think ill keep the stock turbo on this for a while. Im really not sure how far im going to go with this truck yet. I am planning to keep this truck a reliable driver so no welded rear for me. I do have a limited slip 70 carrier laying around from a 2nd gen. I would consider swapping it in at some point if it would work. I assume it will but not sure?

I do have an update. I made it to the drag strip in totally stock trim Saturday night and ran 7 times at the test and tune. I had fun but it would be a lot more fun if it was faster. My best time was a 19.15 at 68mph. My best 60' was a horrendous 2.54 I did get a good baseline to work off of though. It actually feels slightly spunky sometimes just driving it but the non lockup auto and early defueling of the stock governor spring slows it down a lot in 3rd and 4th i think. I did turn the pin to the deepest side and loosen the starwheel while I was at the track but it made no difference in times. It seems slightly more responsive on the road but it still literally doesn't smoke at all. I expected a little more honestly.

I have some gopro video to edit and upload but for now i'll leave you with this video from the side of the track. I didnt feel too bad since the 24v barely beat me. It was puffing smoke on each gear so im assuming it had a small box or injectors.

I think my plan right now is to do a governor spring, turn the power screw in on the pump, possibly aftermarket fuel pin and get my tach hooked up so I have a reference for what RPM im launching the truck.

93 1st gen Cummins vs 24v Cummins drag race - YouTube
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Old 10-03-2018, 09:34 PM   #17
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I have an overpriced "OEM" tach, from a '93, if you're not revving it over 4 grand.

Mrk.
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Old 10-03-2018, 11:05 PM   #18
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I have an isspro tach that I picked up 2nd hand but feel free to PM me what you're asking for yours. My old 91.5 w250 had the factory style tach in it and I always thought it was pretty neat.
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Old 10-04-2018, 04:06 AM   #19
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19s??? �� Welcome to the World of Stock 1st Gens! I gained about 70rwhp with the power screw so should wake it up quite a bit. Be careful of runaways.
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Old 10-04-2018, 09:26 AM   #20
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Here is what I've found is needed once you start adding fuel and power to these engines. Having these parts on hand will keep you moving forward when doing a weekend modification, and not scrounging for last minute parts locally.

Adjust your throttle linkage so you are getting full travel from the linkage. Have someone work the peddle while you watch the linkage at the injection pump. You'll see. Once you add a fuel pin and governor spring, adjust your max fuel screw. Be careful of engine runaway when tuning this pump, have something flat to block of air into the engine. Here is a good article on how to tune these pumps.
Turning up the pre 94 Ram diesel injector pump

Low pressure piston lift pump. Just buy the kit and don't try to piece it together like I did. Itís usually recommended that you locktite the front seal on your injection pump when adding this pump. I have the pump on the shelf ready to install. Have not re-secured my front seal yet.
Low Pressure Piston Lift Pump - from The Hungry Diesel


#2 fuel pin from DennyT Performance. Dennis is an awesome guy who has a family run business and is a 1st gen fanatic.
Denny T Stage 2 Fuel Pin | Denny T Performance

79powerwagon on here is running a HE351 turbo on his 12v VE, he seems to really like the upgrade. Might ask him for more info. HE351's can be had pretty cheap in today's market. $200-$300. If you're hell bent on keeping the HC1 and need more air flow, here is an inexpensive option. $285 for this upgrade which makes a HE351 upgrade enticing.
Holset H1 Upgrade Compressor Housing Wheel combo (60mm) - CH-02 - Gillett Diesel Service Inc.

3200 rpm governor spring for $20. No use in getting a 4,000 rpm spring, I tried that. The VE doesn't fuel past 3,000 rpm anyways.
1st Gen Dodge 12V Cummins 3200RPM VE Governor Spring

You'll need a throttle shaft seal and gasket for the pump top once you crack open your pump to install the governor spring. Just buy the entire rebuild kit. You'll need it.
Dodge 5.9L VE Cummins Injection Pump Seal Kit

Upgraded valve springs to keep your valves from floating once you find new RPM's from that governor spring. Power Driven is the best bang for the buck on these.
12V VALVE SPRINGS - Power Driven Diesel

Inexpensive valve spring compressor if you don't already have one.
12v Cummins Valve Spring Compressor Tool - Power Driven Diesel

If you plan on swapping injectors, have these seals on hand.
12V Cummins Injector Installation Kit

You can delete the fuel heater if youíre in the southern climate. This allows you to run a Fleetguard FS1221 fuel filter which is larger than the OE filter.
Delete Nipple: '89-'93, Dodge Cummins Fuel Pre-Heater Delete Nipple
Fuel Filter: 1st Gen Cummins Upgraded Fuel Filter Separator Fleetguard FS1221

I picked up a used set of head studs and push rods on CompD. That has been my most expensive purchase to date, (less than $1,000) even more than a new clutch for my Getrag360. As for injectors I have not crossed that bridge yet. Iím watching the classified but will probably just contact Smokem at Infinite Performance once Iím ready to upgrade. The stock quick connect fittings at the fuel tank are subject to failure if you remove them a few times. I ended up using new fuel hose and hose clamps to connect the plastic male fittings to the steel fuel line. If your fuel gauge stops working, probably a broken wire to the rheostat inside the tank. The metal telescoping frame on my sending unit assembly rusted in two pieces and cut the wire. No one makes these sending units, I already tried a few. Ended up making my own metal telescoping frame and its been working ever sense. PM me for details on this.
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