Advertisement
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Home Who's Online Today's Posts HP Calculator CompD Gift Shop Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together > Tech Area- Dodge > Dodge Competition and Performance
Register Members List Timeslips EFI Live Library Invite Your Friends FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Dodge Competition and Performance General Dodge Competition and Performance Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-21-2008, 10:40 AM   #1
97crewcab
 
97crewcab's Avatar

Name: 97crewcab
Title: Wrong.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,804
Studs or head bolts?

I am reading more and more about people running stock head bolts with 0-ringed heads. Are studs really needed.
Truck is a 12v running a silver bullet. Twins are a possibility but at this time are not planned.

Opinions?

Thanks
__________________
94, 95, 96, 97 Dodge
Videos
Facebook
 
Old 04-21-2008, 10:54 AM   #2
WUnderwood
 
WUnderwood's Avatar

Name: WUnderwood
Title: CompD Minion
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texas
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 8,402
studs
__________________
2011 Ford F-150 Lariat 4X4

Click the image to open in full size.

RIP BFD99, jponder, and Forrest Nearing
 
Old 04-21-2008, 11:00 AM   #3
Big Swole
 
Big Swole's Avatar

Name: Big Swole
Title: MegaInterceptor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 16,946
I'm going to twins soon and Jeff Garmons says an O-ringed head and my stock bolts is All I will need!!!

He runs stock head bolts on BOTH of his trucks (850ish HP race truck and 650ish on his Ram 2000)!!

just me passing on his .02
__________________
1985 Ferrari 308 GTS QV (3.4L - 300+WHP)
2017 Porsche 911 Turbo S
2016 Mega Laramie Sport pkg. 4x4 in Silver
2006 QCSB 4x4 "GUNNY" 1053 WHP #2 Only 10.70 @ 129.4(SOLD)
 
Old 04-21-2008, 11:01 AM   #4
Timbeaux
 
Timbeaux's Avatar

Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Heart of Dixie
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,231
I know of several folks who think that bolts are fine(myself included)..... and they are if you do them right. If you are worried about ding them right, it is probably easier to do studs, although more expensive.
__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM
BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM)
NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."



 
Old 04-21-2008, 12:58 PM   #5
RAB 38

Name: RAB 38
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 606
what do you have to do to do it right? do you retorque the head bolts?

Swole: How much boost is Garmon saying you can run with headbolts and o ringing the head?
__________________
2005 Ram 2500 4x4 4.10 gears, Smarty UDC, ED twins, Exergy 80%,II 85% cp3.
 
Old 04-21-2008, 01:02 PM   #6
Timbeaux
 
Timbeaux's Avatar

Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Heart of Dixie
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,231
There is a specific torque sequence you have to follow to keep from screwing the bolts up.(ir is posted around here somewhere) Keating runs ungodly amounts of boost in his race engine on stock bolts.
__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM
BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM)
NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."



 
Old 04-21-2008, 01:12 PM   #7
NickTF
 
NickTF's Avatar

Name: NickTF
Title: Single turbo turd.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Laurel, DE
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,887
I've been told head bolts are the way to go as well with a special torqueing procedure. Anyone happen to know what that procedure is as I'll be doing my head with them in about two weeks?
__________________
97 12v sold. 2015 Power Wagon DD!
 
Old 04-21-2008, 01:14 PM   #8
Timbeaux
 
Timbeaux's Avatar

Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Heart of Dixie
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,231
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/for...ock+Head+Bolts
__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM
BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM)
NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."



 
Old 04-21-2008, 01:34 PM   #9
triton
 
triton's Avatar

Name: triton
Title: Scarlet Fever
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,487
that's a Garmon top secret procedure they break if anyone else tries to do it !.

What I know about it you have to torque each bolt in 5lbs increments.... all the way to where to want ( 120lbs ) which is asking for them to break but, if done right.... they hold. It will take hours to do but, I believe that's how it's done.
 
Old 04-21-2008, 01:52 PM   #10
Muddin_dude06
 
Muddin_dude06's Avatar

Name: Muddin_dude06
Title: ...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Magnolia Texas
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,501
And I also believe that after each torque which was done in a 5lb increment you have to allow the bolt a while to cool.
__________________
'96 2500 4x4 5sp. on 35's
ValAir DD Clutch w/ Input
Fresh engine with Bosch 370s, O-ringed, 625s
Hamilton 178/208, pushrods, PDD street springs, S358

12 LML crew cab swb 4x4 5 lift with 35s
Anarchy tune
5 exhaust w/ 15 core FTE resonator
 
Old 04-21-2008, 01:54 PM   #11
Sloverado

Name: Sloverado
Title: Cheat To Win
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 296
Stud and done
__________________
05 Dodge 2500 G56 and 325hp or so Cummins. Did make it through DPC with a broke truck and finished ok!!

08 Dodge 3500 G56 and 350hp or so Cummins.
 
Old 04-21-2008, 02:05 PM   #12
Timbeaux
 
Timbeaux's Avatar

Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Heart of Dixie
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by triton View Post
that's a Garmon top secret procedure they break if anyone else tries to do it !.

What I know about it you have to torque each bolt in 5lbs increments.... all the way to where to want ( 120lbs ) which is asking for them to break but, if done right.... they hold. It will take hours to do but, I believe that's how it's done.
Not quite... It took Jeff about 15 minutes to do mine and they are all at 150+
__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM
BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM)
NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."



 
Old 04-21-2008, 02:13 PM   #13
triton
 
triton's Avatar

Name: triton
Title: Scarlet Fever
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,487
that's because he has a magic wand anyone else beside maybe Darren, it would take hours :-) !
 
Old 04-21-2008, 02:28 PM   #14
NickTF
 
NickTF's Avatar

Name: NickTF
Title: Single turbo turd.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Laurel, DE
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,887
150lbs!!! Wow, that's some serious torque on a head bolt!
__________________
97 12v sold. 2015 Power Wagon DD!
 
Old 04-21-2008, 03:20 PM   #15
Hammer
 
Hammer's Avatar

Name: Hammer
Title: Verbal Junk Author
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,849
Sleddy's old puller had the stock head bolts and a o-ring job which EEP did many moons ago.That same truck still pulls today with those very headbolts and it has never been taken down for anything.The truck finished third at the Keystone Indoor pull......Andy
 
Old 04-21-2008, 03:38 PM   #16
Timbeaux
 
Timbeaux's Avatar

Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Heart of Dixie
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTF View Post
150lbs!!! Wow, that's some serious torque on a head bolt!
I have one or 2 over 160
__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM
BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM)
NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."



 
Old 04-21-2008, 04:25 PM   #17
Timbeaux
 
Timbeaux's Avatar

Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Heart of Dixie
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by stock600 View Post
This is the very reason the HG's let loose, the bolt streaches and the boost escapes. Theres no better fastener or way to hold a head on than studs, and your not trying to pull the threads out of the block this way also.

Wrong and wrong.

I have seen trucks running stock headbolts make enough boost to cause you to crap yourself. When torqued properly, bolts will work fine. Also, I have never seen bolts pull threads out, but studs are another story.

HG's can go for a variety of reasons. I'll buy that bolts at stock TQ specs can lead to HG failures, but these would happen with studs at those same TQ specs.
__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM
BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM)
NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."



 
Old 04-21-2008, 04:27 PM   #18
Timbeaux
 
Timbeaux's Avatar

Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Heart of Dixie
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by stock600 View Post
. Thier overpriced i agree, but necc. if enough boost is used, but overtorque and using the bolt in the wrong psi than it was manufactured for is asking for trouble in my opinion... Ryan
You should really tell this to Keating, Garmon, Morrison, Prince and others. They would probably be glad to find out that the bolts in their 1000+ HP motors are not sufficient
__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM
BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM)
NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
"Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."



 
Old 04-21-2008, 06:36 PM   #19
Fordpowstroke73
 
Fordpowstroke73's Avatar

Name: Fordpowstroke73
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbeaux38 View Post
Wrong and wrong.

I have seen trucks running stock headbolts make enough boost to cause you to crap yourself. When torqued properly, bolts will work fine. Also, I have never seen bolts pull threads out, but studs are another story.

HG's can go for a variety of reasons. I'll buy that bolts at stock TQ specs can lead to HG failures, but these would happen with studs at those same TQ specs.
So do I need to take out my existing Headbolts and lubricate them before torqueing them over the manufacture # or can I just tighten them just the way they are in the truck? Do you have the sequence to tighten them to and the right specs? Thanks
__________________
'95 Ford F-350 CC 4x4 7.3L Ts/Wildman 6 position, chip ,RDS Stage 1's,IDM mod, SD IC , E40D, and more
 
Old 04-21-2008, 07:51 PM   #20
Tlewiscummins
 
Tlewiscummins's Avatar

Name: Tlewiscummins
Title: Diesel freak
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Albemarle, NC
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 138
I'm getting some studs this weekend. when yall say o-ring do u mean in the actual head or something like the Scheid fire ring gasket. Would that work just as good as o-ringing?
__________________
2005 grey CCSB 4x4 MPI, F1, PPE, billet HTS.
1997 white CCLB tow rig
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:41 PM.

 


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2021, CompetitionDiesel.com
all information found on this site is property of www.competitiondiesel.com