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Dodge Competition and Performance General Dodge Competition and Performance Discussion |
04-21-2008, 09:40 AM
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#1
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Name: 97crewcab
Title: Wrong.
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Studs or head bolts?
I am reading more and more about people running stock head bolts with 0-ringed heads. Are studs really needed.
Truck is a 12v running a silver bullet. Twins are a possibility but at this time are not planned.
Opinions?
Thanks
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04-21-2008, 09:54 AM
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#2
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Name: WUnderwood
Title: CompD Minion
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studs
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04-21-2008, 10:00 AM
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#3
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Name: Big Swole
Title: MegaInterceptor
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I'm going to twins soon and Jeff Garmons says an O-ringed head and my stock bolts is All I will need!!!
He runs stock head bolts on BOTH of his trucks (850ish HP race truck and 650ish on his Ram 2000)!!
just me passing on his .02
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04-21-2008, 10:01 AM
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#4
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Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
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I know of several folks who think that bolts are fine(myself included)..... and they are if you do them right. If you are worried about ding them right, it is probably easier to do studs, although more expensive.
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"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
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"A gainst stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."
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04-21-2008, 11:58 AM
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#5
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Name: RAB 38
Title: Too Much Time
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what do you have to do to do it right? do you retorque the head bolts?
Swole: How much boost is Garmon saying you can run with headbolts and o ringing the head?
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04-21-2008, 12:02 PM
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#6
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Name: Timbeaux
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There is a specific torque sequence you have to follow to keep from screwing the bolts up.(ir is posted around here somewhere) Keating runs ungodly amounts of boost in his race engine on stock bolts.
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COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM) NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
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"A gainst stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."
中
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04-21-2008, 12:12 PM
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#7
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Name: NickTF
Title: Single turbo turd.
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I've been told head bolts are the way to go as well with a special torqueing procedure. Anyone happen to know what that procedure is as I'll be doing my head with them in about two weeks?
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97 12v sold. 2015 Power Wagon DD!
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04-21-2008, 12:14 PM
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#8
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Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
Status: Not Here
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__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM) NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
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"A gainst stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."
中
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04-21-2008, 12:34 PM
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#9
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Name: triton
Title: Scarlet Fever
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that's a Garmon top secret procedure they break if anyone else tries to do it !.
What I know about it you have to torque each bolt in 5lbs increments.... all the way to where to want ( 120lbs ) which is asking for them to break but, if done right.... they hold. It will take hours to do but, I believe that's how it's done.
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04-21-2008, 12:52 PM
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#10
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Name: Muddin_dude06
Title: ...
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And I also believe that after each torque which was done in a 5lb increment you have to allow the bolt a while to cool.
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04-21-2008, 12:54 PM
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#11
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Name: Sloverado
Title: Cheat To Win
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Stud and done
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05 Dodge 2500 G56 and 325hp or so Cummins. Did make it through DPC with a broke truck and finished ok!!
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04-21-2008, 01:05 PM
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#12
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Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triton
that's a Garmon top secret procedure they break if anyone else tries to do it !.
What I know about it you have to torque each bolt in 5lbs increments.... all the way to where to want ( 120lbs ) which is asking for them to break but, if done right.... they hold. It will take hours to do but, I believe that's how it's done.
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Not quite... It took Jeff about 15 minutes to do mine and they are all at 150+
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COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM) NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
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"A gainst stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."
中
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04-21-2008, 01:13 PM
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#13
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Name: triton
Title: Scarlet Fever
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that's because he has a magic wand anyone else beside maybe Darren, it would take hours :-) !
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04-21-2008, 01:28 PM
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#14
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Name: NickTF
Title: Single turbo turd.
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150lbs!!! Wow, that's some serious torque on a head bolt!
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97 12v sold. 2015 Power Wagon DD!
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04-21-2008, 02:20 PM
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#15
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Name: Hammer
Title: Verbal Junk Author
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Sleddy's old puller had the stock head bolts and a o-ring job which EEP did many moons ago.That same truck still pulls today with those very headbolts and it has never been taken down for anything.The truck finished third at the Keystone Indoor pull......Andy
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04-21-2008, 02:38 PM
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#16
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Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTF
150lbs!!! Wow, that's some serious torque on a head bolt!
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I have one or 2 over 160
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COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM) NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
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"A gainst stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."
中
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04-21-2008, 03:25 PM
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#17
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Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stock600
This is the very reason the HG's let loose, the bolt streaches and the boost escapes. Theres no better fastener or way to hold a head on than studs, and your not trying to pull the threads out of the block this way also.
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Wrong and wrong.
I have seen trucks running stock headbolts make enough boost to cause you to crap yourself. When torqued properly, bolts will work fine. Also, I have never seen bolts pull threads out, but studs are another story.
HG's can go for a variety of reasons. I'll buy that bolts at stock TQ specs can lead to HG failures, but these would happen with studs at those same TQ specs.
__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM) NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
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"A gainst stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."
中
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04-21-2008, 03:27 PM
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#18
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Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stock600
. Thier overpriced i agree, but necc. if enough boost is used, but overtorque and using the bolt in the wrong psi than it was manufactured for is asking for trouble in my opinion... Ryan
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You should really tell this to Keating, Garmon, Morrison, Prince and others. They would probably be glad to find out that the bolts in their 1000+ HP motors are not sufficient
__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM) NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
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"A gainst stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."
中
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04-21-2008, 05:36 PM
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#19
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Name: Fordpowstroke73
Title: Green Behind the Ears
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbeaux38
Wrong and wrong.
I have seen trucks running stock headbolts make enough boost to cause you to crap yourself. When torqued properly, bolts will work fine. Also, I have never seen bolts pull threads out, but studs are another story.
HG's can go for a variety of reasons. I'll buy that bolts at stock TQ specs can lead to HG failures, but these would happen with studs at those same TQ specs.
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So do I need to take out my existing Headbolts and lubricate them before torqueing them over the manufacture # or can I just tighten them just the way they are in the truck? Do you have the sequence to tighten them to and the right specs? Thanks
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04-21-2008, 06:51 PM
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#20
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Name: Tlewiscummins
Title: Diesel freak
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I'm getting some studs this weekend. when yall say o-ring do u mean in the actual head or something like the Scheid fire ring gasket. Would that work just as good as o-ringing?
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