drivability? and kit vs donor engine?

B

bartholins

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Jun 20, 2011
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Ok, I’m almost positive I want to do a P7100 swap and have read all I can over the last 2 days about doing a swap on my 2001 with an auto, but hav ea couple questions. The short reasoning why I’m wanting to do this is 2 different things… This will be my 3’rd VP44 I’ve killed… only dynoing about 490HP with a walbro 392 lift pump never dipping below 10psi to the pump. I’m tired of replacing VPs. The other one is what some folk say is potentially stupid to even consider, but it’s that I’ve started running waste oil – veggie or motor oil, and obviously this isn’t a good combo with the VP… I knew that going in, and whether or not that was a contributing factor to it’s death, I don’t know or care too much.. the first 2 died under perfect conditions with no crazy fuels, just straight diesel. From what I’ve read of other folks doing ‘alternative fuel’ the P7100 is king in this area too. Now for my one hesitation – I’ve called a couple folks I trust, and they all say drivability is going to go down with the Ppump vs. the VP. I don’t *think* I mind this too much… but wanted to get a consensus from what seems to be a good collection of folks here doing it. I realize you all are the high horsepower folks, not necessarily the towing / daily driver types… but will it really be that much more painful? Something I will get angry with? I’m sure it’s all personal preference, and yes I’ve read the awesome sticky at the top of this forum, just curious if there’s any other input.

The last question is if it’s smarter to just grab a 12Valver out of the junkyard so I have a pump and most all pieces I need right up front for basically the price of the conversion… or to go the conversion route. Honestly, I was tempted to just swap engines, except that the 12Valver I found locally has about 250,000 miles, where mine’s at a lowly 120,000 miles…. Not sure that I’m willing to trade that many miles. Although, could possibly make money on the deal (sell 24V, run 12V), but getting back to a 4 – 500 HP out of the 12V would likely run the price up a bit. That brings one last question, any reason not to run the ‘old used’ pump off that 12V donor? Suggestions on what I’d need to do to it to get in the 4 – 500HP range either with stock injectors or the Extrude Honed 100HP injectors in it now?

Thanks in advance for Any and all thoughts! I appreciate all of the info I’ve already learned from reading here!

--Sam
 
If i did it over again, i would definetly buy a complete conversion kit. Much easier than tracking down every single part.
 
Id buy a spare motor. But I'm frugal.

But you can buy from people like odieb or something like that. He will sell you every minus lines, oil fitting and cam shaft sensor piece.
 
I see 90% of the parts needed for the swap come up in the forums weekly.

And my driveability skyrocketed once I went to a ppump. The ppump is so much more linear and easier to control than a VP.
 
Get an engine and rob the parts off of it. Swap kit is around $1800 from places like Haisley and Schied. Then you need to still get the injection pump, shut off solenoid, various low pressure lines, etc. I bought my spare 12v engine complete for $1300, and you can probably find better deals down south. So you're already $500 less, and up several parts. Only bonus to the conversion kit is that the parts are new and clean. Nothing a little elbow grease won't fix with the old parts.

BgBlDodge said:
And my driveability skyrocketed once I went to a ppump. The ppump is so much more linear and easier to control than a VP.
Click to expand...

x2! If your buddies are saying driveability suffers, either they are just repeating old rumours and haven't actually driven one, or driven one that wasn't set up right. Its just like any 12v, with twice the valves.
 
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$1k is what i paid for my pump and all the swap parts, which made me happy cause i could put more money into the pump. My driveability is great (when its running) once the springs broke in, it idled smooth and never had a problem with it.... til the motor blew lol
 
You must have gotten some awesome deals to get everything including a pump for 1k!
 
I paid $200 after mine was done. Sold the VP and my other electronic gizmos after the sale and it made up the difference. Your looking around $1500-1800 depending on how hard you look.
 
I dd mine and have no complaints. Besides the haze from these injectors its actually a cleaner setup than what the vp was(and the vp setup made less power).
 
I'm gonna blame the injectors for the haze more than the ppump. My 7x.012's at 250bar have zero haze when warm.
 
BgBlDodge said:
I paid $200 after mine was done. Sold the VP and my other electronic gizmos after the sale and it made up the difference. Your looking around $1500-1800 depending on how hard you look.
Click to expand...
Well if you put it that way I made money.

600 for vp
975 for smarty/ tst.

I spent that money plus more on dvs, sending the pump off, gsk, cam.

My only regret is not doing it sooner.
 
BgBlDodge said:
I'm gonna blame the injectors for the haze more than the ppump. My 7x.012's at 250bar have zero haze when warm.
Click to expand...

Oh definitly, my 7x14s were pretty clean as well. haze increased with the 6hole injectors, but it was still worth it imo.
 
Thanks a bunch for all the good info. Makes me feel far better about doing the swap. I'll try to figure out the cheapest way for me to get it done with resources around here. The biggest attraction to getting a complete engine from the junkyard is getting the pump with it... I haven't found pumps very cheap to buy seperate. One last one, due to my limited knowledge of the P-pump, any recommendations on getting around 400 - 500HP? I'll keep reading and see if I can come up with the info I need, just thought I'd ask.

Thanks again!
 
whatever you end up buying, i would keep your engine in the truck, bolt the p pump stuff to your low mile engine that you know is good
 
Having owned & daily driven both a 12 valve and a 99' VP44 truck for several thousand miles, I'd say the driveability is identical between the two trucks. The 12 valve seems to make the most consistent power. When it's a cold morning, the VP44 would run great, on a hot 110* Las Vegas afternoon, the VP truck was smokey and way down on power 50-80HP probably.

The 12 valve runs nearly the same in all weather conditions. It smokes a little more when it's hot, but probably only loses 10-20 HP on a hot day vs cooler morning. The throttle is definitely more linear meaning 80% throttle = 80% power. On my VP with the Quadzilla 80% throttle = 95% power.

Now, I have never driven a p-pumped 24 valve so I can't comment there.

I will say this, my "hopped-up" Junker Drag Truck has much worse driveability than either of my daily drivers did. It is possible to drive smoke free but it is also easy to not pay attention and get into it too quickly and make it turn to midnight. At the 500 HP level, the VP was a little more driveable, but I usually turned the VP down to about 375 HP to make it more pleasant to daily drive because at 500HP full tilt, it was a little jumpy on the throttle, smokey, and just not as smooth.

If your goal is to run WMO, and have a reliable injection pump, I think I'd do the swap.

If driveability is a concern, I don't think I'd be worried about the p7100 pump, I'd be more worried about the horsepower level and tune-up of your daily driver.

FYI, WMO is quite a bit dirtier than regular diesel. I wouldn't want a daily driver with 500 HP running on 50% or greater WMO. Just too smokey, constant haze, etc.

350HP or less is better for a high WMO% fueled vehicle.
 
i got a complete 12v for 900. used what i needed to do the swap then started selling off the rest of it. like bsmith said sell all the electronic stuff that will give you some good spending money. i love mine! i just dont drive it enough to give you input for a daily driver.
 
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