Switch from 33% to 50% methanol or try to adjust the amount of fluid I'm injecting?

[Sandaholic]

Who uses 50/50 water meth? I have seen enough posts that lead me to believe 50% is going to make good power, is still relatively safe and may still add some cooling to the mix.

When I first started this I had a cheap hobbs switch coming on at 30-35psi. Guys were telling me I wasn't getting the fluid in early enough. Picked up a progressive controller and I've got it dialed in........decent. My daily driver setting it comes on around 25 psi with the ramp rate set out pretty far past my usual max boost of around 48psi. Right now I'm limited to that setting or it starts to feel like I'm losing power by putting out the fire. At the track or on the dyno I can bump the ramp rate up pretty good, but still not to the max.

Here is something I posted from a different thread to give you a snapshot of what it's doing for the engine now.

The first 3 runs from bottom to top were fuel only. First run the load was applied a little late is what I was told. The next 2 is what I imagine my rig makes fuel only as they are very similar. The last one at the top there was with the water meth. If you look at the time there was only 20 seconds between those 2 runs so that is some pretty major heat soak IMO. Gain is 26.5 hp and loss of 3 tq.

EGT drop maybe 100-200. Seems to vary quite a bit from run to run. I haven't really messed with it too much since last summer. Needs a little more time to dial it in.

Current setup and also same as what was used on the dyno sheet above:
AIS Stage1 kit with 6gallon tank 2-14gph or 882ml per minute nozzles in the intake horn and 1-7gph or 441ml nozzle pre-turbo with a 5-70psi progressive boost controller.
Please spare me the pre-turbo doom and gloom stories. I have the pre-turbo nozzle valved off and only use it for my paltry efforts at competing. And that nozzle really has had zero effects on making the motor stumble. All it has ever done was help attain more boost! Enough on that.

Alright where am I going with this? I'd like to get wm in sooner at a lower psi. Not sure if I should be looking mainly at just reducing the nozzle size. Or if a higher concentration of methanol will work better. I'm thinking its going to be a little bit of both.

I know I just have to go out and test it to see, but I figured it doesn't hurt to get some opinions.

I'll probably start by dropping back to one 882ml nozzle. I mean it's obvious to me by comparing my setup to others around 5-600hp it seems like I am injecting a ton more water than I should be. And while it definitely works as is, I'm thinking some adjustments could be made to get more out of it.

 

[blackcoal]

wait so which one of those dyno runs is with w/m?

if your wanting it to start putting the water in sooner just adjust the controller?? i have mine come on full water at 20psi. works fine. 1800egt fuel only and about 1400 with water

 

[dust]

WHy not run another solenoid to the second 14 gph? Use the same trigger for the pre-turbo nozzle, or used the old hobbs switch to kick it on at a set boost.. That way you aren't using 32 gph of nozzle all of the time. Set the second nozzle to kick on above your cruising boost, that way it is only on when you are on the right pedal. Turn down the controller so that you can use it when you are cruising etc, but keep an eye on the temp of the controller. I know that Snow's MPG-MAX is no longer designed to run full time, and if I remember my who stole from who, AIS has Devil's Own nozzles and Labonte electronics.

 

[Sandaholic]

wait so which one of those dyno runs is with w/m?
The first one in light blue (647hp)
if your wanting it to start putting the water in sooner just adjust the controller?? If I have it come on any sooner than say 25-30psi it will have the engine stumbling unless it's WFO i have mine come on full water at 20psi. works fine. 1800egt fuel only and about 1400 with water

WHy not run another solenoid to the second 14 gph? I had this thought after I started the threadUse the same trigger for the pre-turbo nozzle, or used the old hobbs switch to kick it on at a set boost.. That way you aren't using 32 gph of nozzle all of the time. Set the second nozzle to kick on above your cruising boost, that way it is only on when you are on the right pedal. Turn down the controller so that you can use it when you are cruising etc, but keep an eye on the temp of the controller. I know that Snow's MPG-MAX is no longer designed to run full time, and if I remember my who stole from who, AIS has Devil's Own nozzles and Labonte electronics.

^^^ This is most likely the way I will go. Seems like you get where I'm coming from with this. It's both too much water and not enough. I tried changing the nozzle sizes up, but it just isn't enough to 'make it right'. So after moving nozzles around and testing I decided one of the nozzles needed to be brought in at a different time. Probably won't mess with it for a while though.

I am really curious how a 50% mix would work in my rig. I think I'm going to hold off though. Get this thing spraying the correct amount of water to actually cool it before I add more fuel.

 

[dust]

What controller are you using?

There is two ways to do what you want.

Buy the right solenoids and hobbs switches etc.
Buy a Snow performance MPG-MAX kit, or the VC2 or CMGS controller from Coolingmist, and locate the mpg-plus stage 3 diesel instructions. Both will allow you to control a second solenoid for more injection. The CM will give you a fault when the second stage opens, unless you use the newest firmware, and then you cannot independently control second stage activation, it will only come on at the controller's max setting.

And, because I think it should be read, take a look here

Nozzle choice Nissan YD25 DI - Devilsown Methanol Alcohol Water Injection

Might help you in figuring out how much methanol you actually need. If you can find info about your turbo, and how much fuel you are injecting you can find out how much extra you need to supplement with the meth, and then size your nozzles based on the percentage of water you add to that amount of methanol.

 

[Sandaholic]

What controller are you using? Labonte 5-70psi

There is two ways to do what you want.

Buy the right solenoids and hobbs switches etc.
Buy a Snow performance MPG-MAX kit, or the VC2 or CMGS controller from Coolingmist, and locate the mpg-plus stage 3 diesel instructions. Both will allow you to control a second solenoid for more injection. The CM will give you a fault when the second stage opens, unless you use the newest firmware, and then you cannot independently control second stage activation, it will only come on at the controller's max setting.

And, because I think it should be read, take a look here

Nozzle choice Nissan YD25 DI - Devilsown Methanol Alcohol Water Injection

Might help you in figuring out how much methanol you actually need. If you can find info about your turbo, and how much fuel you are injecting you can find out how much extra you need to supplement with the meth, and then size your nozzles based on the percentage of water you add to that amount of methanol.

I'll check that link out. Thing is I eventually want to go away from this turbo. So I'm not sure how much further I want to be messing with this. Buy another controller, solenoid(s), another pump. It's not a whole lot of money, but for the gain I'm not sure if I want to screw with it. Be nice to have it dialed in and working flawlessly though.

I think I'd rather save the few bucks to put towards everything else I want. Course that's a ways out. We'll see, maybe I'll do some tinkering.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[dust]

With large enough pre-pump hose, you should not run out of flow. If you want to use what you have, you would just need a check valve and solenoid, or 2 solenoids. Hobbs switch to activate the solenoid for the second stage. If you are using a preturbo, you might want to use a third one, with one on each nozzle, with the 14 and 7 tied to the same trigger(switch is fine too)