12 valve twins water/meth setups nitrous

Big T

Big T

diesel bleeder
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
23
Hey guys, I'm getting ready to head back to the dyno to hopefully "tune" my current setup and I am curious on my water meth. I have a stage II snow set at 160psi and two 625ml nozzles slightly protruding in each side of a banks twin ram. One nozzle per bank. On my last run I had a single ATS 3000, enabled at 18 psi and full at 55 psi(truck ran 62 tops). The truck lost 11 HP. Definantly wanted more. The truck did spool way quicker though. Now I am running an ATS 3000,5000 twin setup. 75 PSI max, same dual 625 and 160 psi 50/50 water and pure methanol, 90 injectors, 191, ported head and manifold, 20* timing. I know that if you run straight water it is completely different than mixing 50/50. I have researched this a lot on Snows forum but have yet to really feel comfortable that if I loose or don't gain power I don't know what to do other than nozzles or pressure. I do have a 2 stage nitrous on the truck but won't be triggering until the next time. Any ideas on how the nitrous and water will change each others setups.

What setup are you guys running on your trucks as far as nozzles, psi, your hp range, pyro's, your nitrous?????
 
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What do you have for fuel mods on your pump, Heavy fueled 12v's dont get the net hp with the meth like other trucks see without as much fuel.
 
Fueling

The truck has a FASS 180/150. 180 GPH, 1/2 feed line, 3/4 draw straw. Has 40 psi at all times. Any idea why the 12 valves don't see the same return.
 
Sorry I didn't list this earlier. 160 pump, mack plug, 100 plate forward, AFC forward, 4100 TST gsk, afc foot milled and shimmed for full movement, 191 DV, 90 HP injectors, 20* timing. I am getting ready to order a set of 150 hp's for everyday use streeting and towing, in case that changes your recommendations.
 
Big T said:
Hey guys, I'm getting ready to head back to the dyno to hopefully "tune" my current setup and I am curious on my water meth. I have a stage II snow set at 160psi and two 625ml nozzles slightly protruding in each side of a banks twin ram. One nozzle per bank. On my last run I had a single ATS 3000, enabled at 18 psi and full at 55 psi(truck ran 62 tops). The truck lost 11 HP. Definantly wanted more. The truck did spool way quicker though. Now I am running an ATS 3000,5000 twin setup. 75 PSI max, same dual 625 and 160 psi 50/50 water and pure methanol, 90 injectors, 191, ported head and manifold, 20* timing. I know that if you run straight water it is completely different than mixing 50/50. I have researched this a lot on Snows forum but have yet to really feel comfortable that if I loose or don't gain power I don't know what to do other than nozzles or pressure. I do have a 2 stage nitrous on the truck but won't be triggering until the next time. Any ideas on how the nitrous and water will change each others setups.

What setup are you guys running on your trucks as far as nozzles, psi, your hp range, pyro's, your nitrous?????
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Big T:

Like you, I also have a 1996 Dodge CTD 12 valve in which the engine was built soley by Scheid Diesel. I am running a 913 P-7100 Pump, custom cam plate, 191 DV's, 5K Gov Springs, Scheid EDM Injectors, 24 degrees of timing.

I have been running water injection on my truck for about five years now. I had an early Snow System, with two (2) .625ml nozzles like you Big T. However, when I increased my fuel and went to the bigger pump and injectors, the Snow System would no longer keep all of my cylinders cool. Therefore, I went to one of Scheids 700+ psi Water Systems with four to five nozzles, but now my nozzles are machined right into the cylinder head. With the Snow System, I had tried water/methanol and could not use it as I experienced terrible "detonation", much like what spark ping sounds like in a gas engine. I feel that I had it due to my high "fixed/mechanical" timing of the 12 valve engine and my P-pump. So, all I run now is straight distilled water with an anti-rust/water pump lubricant to keep the rust out of my cylinder head and engine which I also saw.

I have experimented over the last two years with running a small shot of nitrous with the water. Now, by "small shot" I mean a "single-stage, single nozzle" controlled with a Hobbs Switch. The biggest jet I have run is a .52.
I have experienced no problems with the nitrous and water together. I know some of the Members here may not believe me, but I saw no H.P. increase with JUST water. With the water/methanol the best I ever saw was 40 H.P.
That .52 nitrous jet gives me about 70-75 H.P. depending on the weather and what type of dyno I am running on. I would add that I have to run the water to keep my engine cool. The truck makes around 820-840 on just #2.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this has helped you some Big T.

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John_P
 
Thanks for the great info. With the single I could hit over 1800* very fast, With the twins (and Spearco) I slowly see 1500*. With the water toggled off and on I still see no change in temp while towing (towing under 1200*). The twins light way faster though. The straight water affects the cylinder pressures so much compared to 50/50 mix, that is why I picked one and stuck to it, since I wasn't seeing much cooling affect anyway. Basically I would like to see one or the other. My goal on the street everyday with just #2 is 550+ hp. Do you thing my pump pressures are hurting me at only 160. The more you increase pressure the more atomized and stronger your spray. If I increased pressure to 220 would this be worth while or should I consider a direct port( remember I have a banks twin ram with 2 nozzles to help balance cylinders). The last time I had the head off 2 months ago I was 2 seconds from drilling the head for direct port in case I wanted it down the road but decided against it. As far as "cold knock". I have run my truck as low as 9 psi enable with no obvious knock, but while towing it was very evident. I tried every couple psi I have found my current setup to be the both of best worlds, no knock but faster spooling.
 
Big T said:
Thanks for the great info. With the single I could hit over 1800* very fast, With the twins (and Spearco) I slowly see 1500*. With the water toggled off and on I still see no change in temp while towing (towing under 1200*). The twins light way faster though. The straight water affects the cylinder pressures so much compared to 50/50 mix, that is why I picked one and stuck to it, since I wasn't seeing much cooling affect anyway. Basically I would like to see one or the other. My goal on the street everyday with just #2 is 550+ hp. Do you thing my pump pressures are hurting me at only 160. The more you increase pressure the more atomized and stronger your spray. If I increased pressure to 220 would this be worth while or should I consider a direct port( remember I have a banks twin ram with 2 nozzles to help balance cylinders). The last time I had the head off 2 months ago I was 2 seconds from drilling the head for direct port in case I wanted it down the road but decided against it. As far as "cold knock". I have run my truck as low as 9 psi enable with no obvious knock, but while towing it was very evident. I tried every couple psi I have found my current setup to be the both of best worlds, no knock but faster spooling.
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Big T:

You are very welcome on the reply Sir!

Yes, I do think the pump pressure is hurting you some. That was the case on my truck too. If you are happy with Snow System, I would recommend adding another one of their RV style pumps "in-line" with the other pump. I always saw about 200 degrees difference in EGT's on my truck with the Snow System on,.. water vs no-water. But my H.P. at that time was at around 640-650 and now I am over 800. With my Scheid Water System and the nozzles set-up in the cylinder head I can knock my temperatures down 350 degrees and more depending on the pressure I have set. I am very glad to hear you have not experienced that "detonation" like I have. I know that some of other Members here that also run the Snow Systems with meth/water mixture are able to run that without any problems. But, on my truck I just cannot do it anymore.

It sounds to me like you are on the right track though Big T!:rockwoot:
 
From what I read im thinking you might have a little to much water up top if you lost some hp. The snow stage 2 with the 2 big nozzles should flow enough water for 650hp so if your not making that much it could be hurting instead of helping. I would also suggest raising the pump pressure because your boost pressure is getting close to pump pressure it will not atomize as well and it starts to become a dribble or stream, I also have the snow stage 2 and i set it for 12 start and about 65 for full and those setting have worked the best for me. Hope any of this helps good luck
 
One other thing I thought of was I was planning to set the upper limit at a psi I don't hit. Since it is linear if I set the controller to 90 psi on top but I am only running 75 tops, that would act as a smaller nozzle. The problem then comes back to I am killing my pump pressure, the thing I now might be trying to raise. A higher pump pressure and smaller nozzles may be my next try, thanks guys.
 
i just noticed u said u have 20 deg of timing take it to 25 deg with those mods i would hope u have your head or block o-ringed and i know a few guys with more mods than that on stock pistons running 25-28 deg and they all say there truck felt stock at 20 deg compared to 25 just a thought that might help u:charger:
 
What setup are you guys running on your trucks as far as nozzles, psi, your hp range, pyro's, your nitrous?????
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I've been running a single high pressure pump on (2) 625's for a tad less than 5 years now, it runs at 190 psi with the pump turned all the way up....tested pressure....and I turn it on via a hobbs switch but your controller will work just fine. At one time I even ran an additional pump with a single 625 at 280 psi but it's too much water with a single.

I currently turn mine on at 40 psi and have always made 50hp at a minimum, others have made a little more power but less than 70 with a 50/50 mix.

If you add N2O prior to the intercooler it will work fine but I'd be leary of both being in the hat at the same time.

Jim
 
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