2.6 Protrusion Consensus

97' CTD said:
There is no grey aera the:

-MWE CANNOT BE LOCATED ANYWHERE IN THE 2.6" BORE
-THE 2.6" BORE CANNOT TAPER
-MWE CANNOT EXCEED .250"
-COMPRESSOR WHEEL FINS MUST ENTER THE 2.6" BORE FOR .125"


Brandon
Click to expand...

Stating this up Front: Below I'm going to play Devil's advocate at the moment. It is no secret and it should be NO surprise that guys are going to push the limits, cheat, misinterpret (knowingly or unknowingly), think outside the box, and some are just going to push buttons to push buttons. I know YOU know what is MEANT by the rules and their INTENT, and many who you talk to are on the same page as you, but not everyone thinks the same. I just dealt with this in our club on black and white rules, but it still was a cluster :doh:

I am no expert on turbos and some of what I write below may not even make sense (and if it doesn't, just disregard), just trying to see if I can find gray areas for you.

MWE CANNOT BE LOCATED ANYWHERE IN THE 2.6" BORE Fairly straight forward, I can't think of anything to dispute or areas of gray (others might)

THE 2.6" BORE CANNOT TAPER Only straight bores allowed. I'm assuming it was to keep a 2.6 inducer face from tapering to say a 2.8 or greater, not that anyone would do this, but what if they have a bore face smaller than 2.6 (say a "modified" 2.5 charger for those that were running 2.5) and it tapers to 2.6 at the blade tips (are they disqualified because they don't have a straight bore)??

MWE CANNOT EXCEED .250" Is that at it's widest point or average width, or..... what if someone gets creative with machining an "odd" shape for a MWE (not sure it can be done, just thinking "outside the box" at the moment)

COMPRESSOR WHEEL FINS MUST ENTER THE 2.6" BORE FOR .125" I understand the concept and logistics of this, but how easy is this to tech "in the field)? You can measure the depth of the bore (along the wall), and you can measure to the face of the compressor wheel fairly easy with a plug, but the fins don't necessarily have to start at the face of the wheel (the "center post" for lack of a better term can stick out farther). You can still measure to the tip of a fin, but not as easily. Just trying to figure out "intent"

Again not trying to change what rules you want (as you seem set in stone), just trying to help you avoid possible confusion and close up any loopholes before you send them to print. Knowing the rules and their intent does not mean you can translate them well to paper for others to comprehend (found out first hand myself). I wish we had posted some of our rules for people to "pick at" before we set them in stone (would have saved a huge headache for me).

Good Luck,
Chris
 
Let's see if these help. These sketches can certainly be improved, but it's all I had time for this morning.
 

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Note, the MWE sketch only shows the slot on the upper edge of the bore....assume it goes all the way around.

The plane marked in green dashed line is the plane I believe COTPC wants the groove to be to the right of...anything behind (or to the right of) the secondary tips is good. Anything forward of the green line is not legal.

One thing, if someone is not using a stepped diameter wheel, I would say the MWE has to be behind the leading edge of the compressor tips. Your call.
 
nwpadmax said:
Let's see if these help. These sketches can certainly be improved, but it's all I had time for this morning.
Click to expand...


Why is there an MWE on the top and not on the bottom in the second attachment? LOL!
 
Good drawings - maybe the rulebooks should have more pix & fewer words... :1tooth:

Still going to be tough teching MWE slot profiles (oops, did next year's "trick" just escape?) :evil
 
THE 2.6" BORE CANNOT TAPER Only straight bores allowed. I'm assuming it was to keep a 2.6 inducer face from tapering to say a 2.8 or greater, not that anyone would do this, but what if they have a bore face smaller than 2.6 (say a "modified" 2.5 charger for those that were running 2.5) and it tapers to 2.6 at the blade tips (are they disqualified because they don't have a straight bore)??


this is like saying a guy with a stock charger wont pass becasue the plug is to big...no! as long as the plug doesnt hit the wheel there is no problem... Im no gurue but the person teching will know if the charger has some crazy cover on it or not.
 
p-pumped said:
why no billets? i have been asked this allready. billet = bad because it holds up? no billet rods either cause they wont break? where do you stop.

If you had an idea of no billet wheels then why didnt you bring it up at the meeting.
build the best turbo that you have the resourses of know how or cash to build to the rules and come run her for what she is worth.

Ted
Click to expand...

You want to limit HP but billet wheels are ok??? I have sent you 2 pm's and have not heard anything from you? If you think billet wheels are just for durability I have lost all faith in you I know you know better (for those of you that dont know 100hp from cast to billet is more than doable) but limit HP I sure hope there is some type of manditory COTPC meeting to sit down and discuss and hash these things over cause this is funny. LOL

Brandon
 
nwpadmax said:
Let's see if these help. These sketches can certainly be improved, but it's all I had time for this morning.
Click to expand...

nwpadmax said:
Note, the MWE sketch only shows the slot on the upper edge of the bore....assume it goes all the way around.

The plane marked in green dashed line is the plane I believe COTPC wants the groove to be to the right of...anything behind (or to the right of) the secondary tips is good. Anything forward of the green line is not legal.

One thing, if someone is not using a stepped diameter wheel, I would say the MWE has to be behind the leading edge of the compressor tips. Your call.
Click to expand...

On your drawings of the MWE I see them both being legal by the rule. On the first drawing (copta drawing with measurements) you show the 2.6 inducer going to .375". On both the MWE groove pics the groove is behind that .375" inducer section. There is nothing stating that the Groove cannot be part of the cover step?
 
I sure hope COTPC 2.6" is ready for a Standalone billet zinger CR LOL :woohoo: teach these dumb ag pumped dinosaurs what is up :blahblah1:bif.
Brandon
 
Leadfoot said:
Stating this up Front: Below I'm going to play Devil's advocate at the moment. It is no secret and it should be NO surprise that guys are going to push the limits, cheat, misinterpret (knowingly or unknowingly), think outside the box, and some are just going to push buttons to push buttons. I know YOU know what is MEANT by the rules and their INTENT, and many who you talk to are on the same page as you, but not everyone thinks the same. I just dealt with this in our club on black and white rules, but it still was a cluster :doh:

I am no expert on turbos and some of what I write below may not even make sense (and if it doesn't, just disregard), just trying to see if I can find gray areas for you.

MWE CANNOT BE LOCATED ANYWHERE IN THE 2.6" BORE Fairly straight forward, I can't think of anything to dispute or areas of gray (others might) THERE IS NO GREY

THE 2.6" BORE CANNOT TAPER Only straight bores allowed. I'm assuming it was to keep a 2.6 inducer face from tapering to say a 2.8 or greater, not that anyone would do this, but what if they have a bore face smaller than 2.6 (say a "modified" 2.5 charger for those that were running 2.5) and it tapers to 2.6 at the blade tips (are they disqualified because they don't have a straight bore)??NO TAPERS IS NO TAPERS YES

MWE CANNOT EXCEED .250" Is that at it's widest point or average width, or..... what if someone gets creative with machining an "odd" shape for a MWE (not sure it can be done, just thinking "outside the box" at the moment)WIDEST POINT

COMPRESSOR WHEEL FINS MUST ENTER THE 2.6" BORE FOR .125" I understand the concept and logistics of this, but how easy is this to tech "in the field)? You can measure the depth of the bore (along the wall), and you can measure to the face of the compressor wheel fairly easy with a plug, but the fins don't necessarily have to start at the face of the wheel (the "center post" for lack of a better term can stick out farther). You can still measure to the tip of a fin, but not as easily. Just trying to figure out "intent"BECAUSE THE PROTRUSION IS OF THE TIP OF THE WHEEL NOT THE CENTER MASS OF THE WHEEL IF IT WAS FOR THE CENTER MASS THEN YOU WOULD NOT EVEN HAVE TO CLIP A WHEEL TO HAVE .125 THE CENTER MASS WOULD PASS TECH

Again not trying to change what rules you want (as you seem set in stone), just trying to help you avoid possible confusion and close up any loopholes before you send them to print. Knowing the rules and their intent does not mean you can translate them well to paper for others to comprehend (found out first hand myself). I wish we had posted some of our rules for people to "pick at" before we set them in stone (would have saved a huge headache for me). I AM NOBODY JUST THINK IT IS FUNNY I HAVE PLENTY OF RESOURCES TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE AND I WILL IM TRYING TO CLEAR THINGS UP ALSO SO I KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN TO PUSH THE RULES

Good Luck,
Chris
Click to expand...

Thanks,
Brandon
 
outlaw99 said:
THE 2.6" BORE CANNOT TAPER Only straight bores allowed. I'm assuming it was to keep a 2.6 inducer face from tapering to say a 2.8 or greater, not that anyone would do this, but what if they have a bore face smaller than 2.6 (say a "modified" 2.5 charger for those that were running 2.5) and it tapers to 2.6 at the blade tips (are they disqualified because they don't have a straight bore)??


this is like saying a guy with a stock charger wont pass becasue the plug is to big...no! as long as the plug doesnt hit the wheel there is no problem... Im no gurue but the person teching will know if the charger has some crazy cover on it or not.
Click to expand...


I understand that, but again was being devil's advocate. If someone wanted to be an azzhat (and there are plenty out there), they could throw someone out with a 2.5 turbo because it has a tapered bore (per the letter of the rule). Again, it's the difference between what is black and white and what is intended. Trust me (especially with rules that hope to be adopted over a large geographical area), someone will push the issue because they don't like somebody or somebody's friend (even if said truck is not a "contender"). All I'm trying to do is clear it up now so it does not become a BIGGER issue in the future (and possibly hurt a potential newcomer to the class).

Edit, just saw the post ahead of this one. So the guy with the tapered 2.5 is out (at least they will know ahead of time they cannot compete).
 
There is some confusion as to the word "step".

I took it to mean, the step created when you take a 75mm wheel inducer, and grind down a short length (~1/8") to 66mm. This creates a "step" in the wheel much like the pic I posted a while back.

Ted or someone from COTPC please clarify, because a lot hangs on that word.
 
nwpadmax said:
Let's see if these help. These sketches can certainly be improved, but it's all I had time for this morning.
Click to expand...

If this is correct you will have to weld up factory covers and remachine covers cause IIRC the map in a standard borg cover starts and takes in the tip of the secondary blade. SOOOOOOOO
Brandon
 
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