2.6 Protrusion Consensus

PTPULLINCHASSIS said:
Yes, that is the reason why we want a specific location for the map groove. I don't think a lot of the people on here realize what was going on in this class, but Ted and myself got to see first hand from teching these trucks just how far they were willing to go. Making these turbo rule changes will cut these trucks back a considerable amount.

I don't think the majority of the fpp and nadm pullers realize they are leaving the door wide open for someone w/ the right resources and know how to come in and put the smack down on them by 20 and 30 feet consistently. Thankfully it happened over here once and I think it woke up alot of the pullers and showed them what can and will happen with the old rules in place.
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Nah we're not naive. I've just said it over and over, if y'all can come up with ONE protrusion rule that is simple and effective, and has some staying power without constant fiddling (2 years say), then fine let's look at it.

But when all you see is everyone doing their own thing, why jump into that? Better to stay where we are for a year or whatever 'til the dust settles.
 
To clarify; Scheid's rules allow a 0.200" MWE with any placement, this set of rules will allow a 0.250" MWE behind the step of the compressor wheel. Now the question is which will most adopt next year, since pulling the power back in the "Street Class" is not of interest.
 
Sometimes, when Truth comes knocking at the door, some people yell "Go the hell away! I'm looking for the truth!"
 
Oh yeah we are not going to call it street diesel anymore I don't think.

Like I said if we can get together with the other states and find a happy medium and our pullers will go with it we can all match, or if others will go with what we have then its a non issue since no body else has set their rules yet besides us. Im not saying go with cotpc rules because we are the best, go with them so we can be the same.

Ted
 
For KY rules Contact Kevin Fulks, he is the one to talk to about B.O.B. Rules. His information is on the website. Www.bluegrasspulling.com

I haven't heard anything from NKTPA as far as their rules next year.

-Michael
 
nwpadmax said:
That's what I thought you meant.

So let me say it another way, as a wee man walks from the inducer into the wheel, he first enters the 2.6 bore...then walks to the compressor tips. 1/8" later, if using a stepped wheel, the blades will swing up to a larger diameter. Some small distance behind those secondary tips, the MWE may start.

Am I trackin' with ya?
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You nailed it, This is exactly what our rules state. This is a fair rule I believe. The rules are locked for three years with the option after the second year to talk about what changes can be made for the fourth year. I think this is fair also. I don't understand why Pa thinks this is so bad.
 
A rule is only words on a piece of paper if it's not enforced. Secondly, if the rule does not satisfy the sole intent of making it what have you accomplished. I think some of you guys better start looking at who is pushing for this particular rule.
 
mech2161 said:
A rule is only words on a piece of paper if it's not enforced. Secondly, if the rule does not satisfy the sole intent of making it what have you accomplished. I think some of you guys better start looking at who is pushing for this particular rule.
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What does all this mean? Why not just say why this rule is so bad in your opinion.
 
p-pumped said:
Having people who are not involved in pulling making the rules is aboutlike having a parking attendant deliver a baby. Not a good idea. The pullers are the ones that make the show and spend the money. They have every right to decide on the rules. From the top to the bottom from ntpa to us that's how its done.
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I assume you were responding to my suggestion. If I stated having people not involved in truck pulling should be making the rules you would be correct, but I did not. There are many "former" truck pullers and people who have been involved with the sport for more years than you or me, that do not currently compete that could be used for "less biased" (as they won't be affected by the rules) decision making. They would not be inclined to make rules fit "their" turbo or truck, but rather what would be best on a National level. It's hard to be unbiased if you are voting on a rule that is going to cost YOU $$$$ especially if you are down on your luck (which in this economy several people are). Someone who does not currently own a truck (but is still knowledgeable) will not have that "devil on their shoulder".....

Sorry if I was not clear.
 
Leadfoot said:
I assume you were responding to my suggestion. If I stated having people not involved in truck pulling should be making the rules you would be correct, but I did not. There are many "former" truck pullers and people who have been involved with the sport for more years than you or me, that do not currently compete that could be used for "less biased" (as they won't be affected by the rules) decision making. They would not be inclined to make rules fit "their" turbo or truck, but rather what would be best on a National level. It's hard to be unbiased if you are voting on a rule that is going to cost YOU $$$$ especially if you are down on your luck (which in this economy several people are). Someone who does not currently own a truck (but is still knowledgeable) will not have that "devil on their shoulder".....

Sorry if I was not clear.
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I dont think there was anyone there at the meeting who was favoring there truck! We all agreed on protrusion because scheid has it and b.o.b was going to it. Im not sure what you are trying to say about people favoring there trucks... we changed very little rules... nothing anyone out there cant afford to do.


also how can u say that truck pullers are down on there luck.... 80% of these guys are farmers and or own there own buisness money is not a problem for most of these people...
 
mech2161 said:
A rule is only words on a piece of paper if it's not enforced. Secondly, if the rule does not satisfy the sole intent of making it what have you accomplished. I think some of you guys better start looking at who is pushing for this particular rule.
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It looks like this thread has two agendas:

1. Make one set of rules for everyone to follow (Great Idea)

2. Restrict the power in the 2.6 class (again Great Idea)

The problem comes from people looking to only do one or the other (most are focused on agenda number 1). That would be a HUGE step for the sport especially when it comes to crossing borders, but like mech2161 brings up, there are many people who are concerned with the co$t of the 2.6 class. It's gone well beyond custom turbos and a good tranny/clutch, it's reached the full motor build, bigger driveshafts, stronger axles, custom part$, etc. to be able to put the power to the ground (and not break every time out). While it's not an entry level or even "street" class, it's approaching (and in some cases surpassed) what should be expected of a 1 ton drivetrain. 2.6 is where 2.8 was years ago and I believe is the reason why 2.8 is almost dead (the stock driveline cannot take it, and it costs an insane amount to TRY and make it live). It was either drop down to 2.6 and save parts or jump up to open driveline. The problem is 2.6 is now approaching the same level of power that was killing drivelines so they are ALMOST in the same boat.

While agenda number 1 is key, we would be idiots to not look at our history books or stare into our crystal ball and see that not limiting the power output in 2.6 would be detrimental to the sport in the years to come....

I think mech2161 is trying to point that out, but it seems like everyone is quick to jump on him and/or try to prove otherwise.

I know lots of guys have great ideas for fancy/unique/custom/etc inducer setups, but what is wrong with having a standard 2.6 inducer (say a minimum of 1 inch depth) with no MWE and no other way for air to enter??? Is that so terrible, or is it because people already spent a $hitload on custom inducers and covers and don't want to admit they spent it foolishly if the rules are changed to something simple, easy, and effective?
 
Leadfoot said:
I assume you were responding to my suggestion. If I stated having people not involved in truck pulling should be making the rules you would be correct, but I did not. There are many "former" truck pullers and people who have been involved with the sport for more years than you or me, that do not currently compete that could be used for "less biased" (as they won't be affected by the rules) decision making. They would not be inclined to make rules fit "their" turbo or truck, but rather what would be best on a National level. It's hard to be unbiased if you are voting on a rule that is going to cost YOU $$$$ especially if you are down on your luck (which in this economy several people are). Someone who does not currently own a truck (but is still knowledgeable) will not have that "devil on their shoulder".....

Sorry if I was not clear.
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Great idea in theory, I think we have a system like that now, it is in Washington DC. We see how well they represent the majority...
Politics change people...

Plus even if you had the national body that put together the rules you don't have to adopt them. Most pulling organizations have similar rules, that allow others to come and play, but can still have the homefield advantage.

IE someone pulling a .250 MWE while others use .200.
 
Leadfoot said:
It looks like this thread has two agendas:

1. Make one set of rules for everyone to follow (Great Idea)

2. Restrict the power in the 2.6 class (again Great Idea)

The problem comes from people looking to only do one or the other (most are focused on agenda number 1). That would be a HUGE step for the sport especially when it comes to crossing borders, but like mech2161 brings up, there are many people who are concerned with the co$t of the 2.6 class. It's gone well beyond custom turbos and a good tranny/clutch, it's reached the full motor build, bigger driveshafts, stronger axles, custom part$, etc. to be able to put the power to the ground (and not break every time out). While it's not an entry level or even "street" class, it's approaching (and in some cases surpassed) what should be expected of a 1 ton drivetrain. 2.6 is where 2.8 was years ago and I believe is the reason why 2.8 is almost dead (the stock driveline cannot take it, and it costs an insane amount to TRY and make it live). It was either drop down to 2.6 and save parts or jump up to open driveline. The problem is 2.6 is now approaching the same level of power that was killing drivelines so they are ALMOST in the same boat.

While agenda number 1 is key, we would be idiots to not look at our history books or stare into our crystal ball and see that not limiting the power output in 2.6 would be detrimental to the sport in the years to come....

I think mech2161 is trying to point that out, but it seems like everyone is quick to jump on him and/or try to prove otherwise.

I know lots of guys have great ideas for fancy/unique/custom/etc inducer setups, but what is wrong with having a standard 2.6 inducer (say a minimum of 1 inch depth) with no MWE and no other way for air to enter??? Is that so terrible, or is it because people already spent a $hitload on custom inducers and covers and don't want to admit they spent it foolishly if the rules are changed to something simple, easy, and effective?
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People will want to win, so they will just start spending 2 "$hitload"s on custom billet wheels etc. The fans at the non diesel only events come to watch a small showing of each. They don't want to come and watch 25 street trucks hook. While the diesel truck fans love this, 95% of the venues most of us pull at, the diesels are just part of the show. Taking the power back with the protrusion is a good first step. Take small steps, if you cut it back to far it may become a dead class to the fans also.
 
outlaw99 said:
I dont think there was anyone there at the meeting who was favoring there truck! We all agreed on protrusion because scheid has it and b.o.b was going to it. Im not sure what you are trying to say about people favoring there trucks... we changed very little rules... nothing anyone out there cant afford to do.


also how can u say that truck pullers are down on there luck.... 80% of these guys are farmers and or own there own buisness money is not a problem for most of these people...
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Again, I did not say those who voted were favoring their truck, or that all truck pullers are down on their luck (please read what I wrote). I will say that I (myself) feel that those "clubs" voting on inducer/turbo rules are not looking out for the best interest of the sport. Even NADM who is trying to keep their rules open to as many pullers as possible, is doing it to keep numbers up rather than making a set of rules in the best "future" interest of the sport.

What I did say is that IF we are going to have an "National Rule Board", it should not be comprise of people who "COULD" (not necessarily will) have bias because they own a truck and it's not out of the realm of possibility that 1 out of that group could be experiencing financial issues (happens to the best of us), and might be a little biased because of that. Not running a truck would eliminate that POTENTIAL of bias. Sorry if it was not stated clearly (My Bad!)
 
zstroken said:
People will want to win, so they will just start spending 2 "$hitload"s on custom billet wheels etc. The fans at the non diesel only events come to watch a small showing of each. They don't want to come and watch 25 street trucks hook. While the diesel truck fans love this, 95% of the venues most of us pull at, the diesels are just part of the show. Taking the power back with the protrusion is a good first step. Take small steps, if you cut it back to far it may become a dead class to the fans also.
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I agree, people want to win and will try to win. Some will even spend big $$$$$ to try and do it (some have lots of extra spare cash and others will take out a second mortgage to do it), and some will pull with whatever they can reasonably set aside (will always be that way and that won't change).

The way 2.6 currently is, any true street truck won't stand a chance so you don't have to worry about 25 street trucks in the 2.6 class (except for a few select areas). I agree to not cutting the class' legs off, but what is so wrong with a straight native 2.6 no MWE turbo (do whatever you feel like with the wheel and inside of the cover). A GOOD turbo with a custom wheel and cover should be powerfull enough for those with the money to experiment, but yet be EASY TO TECH (which would stop alot of the *****ing/debating), without "crippling" the power output. Will the output be less than what it is now, most definitely, but will it be over 700RWHP (absolutely) and I bet we would see 800+RWHP?

Why do guys push the limits? Because they can, and they are allowed to (within the confines of the rules). Limit the rules and they can only push so far.

Thoughts?

Edit: The fans are where we get the money to put on shows, payouts, etc. If it weren't for them, we would not be pulling where we do or getting the payouts we do. Would there be pulls, YES, but not on the scale we do. I agree there has to be consideration for the fans, which is where exibition pulls (guys who don't fit the rules) often become a highlight of a show and help put more butts in the seats. These are the guys who spend a$$loads of money on their trucks and don't care about rules or classes and just want to hook to the sled. Incorporate those guys in your pulls and you will be surprised at the reaction and money it will bring in. Many guys even get paid to pull "exhibition only" for a show.
 
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Leadfoot said:
I agree, people want to win and will try to win. Some will even spend big $$$$$ to try and do it (some have lots of extra spare cash and others will take out a second mortgage to do it), and some will pull with whatever they can reasonably set aside (will always be that way and that won't change).

The way 2.6 currently is, any true street truck won't stand a chance so you don't have to worry about 25 street trucks in the 2.6 class (except for a few select areas). I agree to not cutting the class' legs off, but what is so wrong with a straight native 2.6 no MWE turbo (do whatever you feel like with the wheel and inside of the cover). A GOOD turbo with a custom wheel and cover should be powerfull enough for those with the money to experiment, but yet be EASY TO TECH (which would stop alot of the *****ing/debating), without "crippling" the power output. Will the output be less than what it is now, most definitely, but will it be over 700RWHP (absolutely) and I bet we would see 800+RWHP?

Thoughts?
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This is a moot point, OHIO and KY have already adopted rules that allow protrusion, I am sure IN will be in short order as they don't want to be odd man out.

We can sit and debate what if's for hours, but the ball is already in motion. OHIO and KY classes put on awesome 2.6 shows. So they must be doing something right!
 
zstroken said:
This is a moot point, OHIO and KY have already adopted rules that allow protrusion, I am sure IN will be in short order as they don't want to be odd man out.

We can sit and debate what if's for hours, but the ball is already in motion. OHIO and KY classes put on awesome 2.6 shows. So they must be doing something right!
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Agreed. At this point the ball is rolling and Agenda number 2 has gone by the wayside. If everyone could focus on Agenda number 1 it would be GREAT for the sport in the short term and GREAT for the pullers.

It's no secret Ohio and KY put on awesome shows and it works for them right now, but will it stay that way in 3 years? It would be nice.......
 
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