320,000 miles on 181/210 with #110 springs

Hamilton Cams

Hamilton Cams

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I had a customer come in today that I have not seen in quite some time. I rebuilt his engine a few years back. He has over 900,000 on the truck, almost 450,000 miles on the rebuild and almost 320,000 miles since he installed the cam. It is our old 181/210 design with the wide lobe core and our old 110# higher rate springs.

In the next month he will be trading that cam out for a new fuel miser cam we are about to release. I am anxious to release the dyno graphs and pictures of the cam.

Stay tuned.

Zach Hamilton
 
gosh damn i want to see a pic of the whole truck lol. How many times is that around the world lol
 
ecc_33 said:
gosh damn i want to see a pic of the whole truck lol. How many times is that around the world lol
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Looky here the chevy guy is impressed, lol. Just playing with ya buddy. I want to see pics of the truck too!
 
This fuel miser cam you speak of, details?, should I be waiting to order a cam until it comes out?

-Dustin-
 
Would be neat if we could get some spring pressure readings compared to what the spring spec's out at new! Always has seemed to me, atleast in the street/strip world of these trucks, that diesel guys seem to treat valve springs like they are non wearable parts.
 
NickTF said:
Would be neat if we could get some spring pressure readings compared to what the spring spec's out at new! Always has seemed to me, atleast in the street/strip world of these trucks, that diesel guys seem to treat valve springs like they are non wearable parts.
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Very true, I'm swapping my stockers out soon for 60lbers and I'm taking bets on what the spring pressures are going to be like after 235000 miles.

-Dustin-
 
Bersaglieri said:
This fuel miser cam you speak of, details?, should I be waiting to order a cam until it comes out?

-Dustin-
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It is a version of our 178-208 we have run in the past. It works nice but we just made a change to the intake to shut 5 degrees sooner after BDC on the intake stroke. This will make it even snappier and will move the peak torque down a few hundred rpm. We have 10 of the final design getting made this next week. Also ahead are some variations of other cams to fill in gaps in demand. We have some customers that want the more aggressive 188 intake but want the more efficient 210 exhaust. for tha treason we will be releasing the 188-210 soon with the new 178-208 and a new wider LSA 200-220 that will make it come on harder down low and stay on longer!

For the most part the 188-220 and the 181-210 will remain the same for now. we are looking at moving the LSA's slightly to get a little more out of them.

I am so excited to have an engineer that can change different parts of the lobe so fast in a program instead of being stuck with a mechanical master on the shelf that you can only advance or retard. With this new engineer on our side our cams are getting better faster!

On the springs wear rates. We have seen 110# springs drop to 106# after 60,000 miles or so. Next time this high mileage truck is at the shop I will pull a few out and test them. Typically lower pressure springs in lower stress environments will have less load loss.

High lift cam, high rpm, high spring pressure? Check springs once a season at least. Daily drivers with a drop in cam, not as big of an issue.
 
Sounds good, I was looking into the 178/208 for my Hot Tow/DD truck instead of the 181/210 for street use. Spool up and EGT control are paramount in my 5000ft desert environment, especially when towing. I'll give you guys a call this week.

Roger that on checking spring pressures on radial designs, square solid roller lobes run springs into the ground pretty quick.

-Dustin-
 
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Bersaglieri said:
Sounds good, I was looking into the 178/208 for my Hot Tow/DD truck instead of the 181/210 for street use. Spool up and EGT control are paramount in my 5000ft desert environment, especially when towing. I'll give you guys a call this week.

Roger that on checking spring pressures on radial designs, square solid roller lobes run springs into the ground pretty quick.

-Dustin-
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To be honest with you, if spoolup is your main concern then the 181-210 will spool up quicker than the 178-208. The way the 178-208 is designed it will work best for a daily driver that does a lot of highway driving at lower boost numbers. If you put both cams in a tow application at high altitude the 181-210 will spool earlier and lower egt more.

The smaller intake of the 178 is designed to move the power band down a bit and do it efficiently. It traps maximum amout of air at cruising speeds without a lot of boost. Couple that with the smaller exhaust that allows more pressure to act on the piston and you get an efficient cam that wastes less energy to get the turbo lit. This cams job is to put a little bit more energy to the rear tires each time the cylinder fires. Do that for 400 or 600 miles on the highway and you will see the gains. It does lose a little bit of raw power to trade in for efficiency.

The larger 181 intake looses a little bit of bottom end to make a wider power band but it offsets that with a larger exhaust to get the chargers to spool. So it makes power just as well but holds out longer in the rpm range due to the larger intake wheras the 178 will not be that great above 3500rpm.

The 188 intake would have even slower spool compared to the 181, but use a little bit more of the exhaust energy and you get the fastest spool of our cams combined with a cam that keeps making power to 4300 or more depending on the head and chargers.

Just to throw this into the mix Joel Saunders with a 64/71/14 and an s-480 and 250+hp injectors got 22mpg in diesel power challenge using his 188/220 when he was trying to get top MPG. Driver input is still one of the biggest parts of the fuel economy equation.

I think the 181/210 would work best at your high altitude trying to spool the fastest and still be efficient. also the 12v's have a head that flows less, which requires you to cheat up a bit on the intake size to get the air into the cylinder.
 
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Thanks for the explanation, that pretty much sums up what Ryan told me when I called over there today. I totally understand cheating up on cam size to make up for head deficiencies.

I do take the highway to work, but being a DD truck, I do alot of city driving and tow a trailer/drag car. It's the work horse in the stable. But going to the strip means some long grades at high altitudes. I've got all the power to pull but the EGT's creep up on me and force me to slow down. The 110 heat and altitude just shoots that gauge to 1500+ in no time, even with HX35/HT3B twins. Working against me are the 35" tires and 3.54 gears, which had me thinking the smaller 178 camshaft. I run between 5-10psi at highway speeds, obviously higher on grades. Up north [OH/KY/PA] my EGT's are 200-300 degrees lower compared to down here. Spool up is hurt as well, which is why I'm looking for a camshaft to improve those two areas. #1 Priority would be controlling EGT's, especially on grades. I don't care if it makes 1hp more, if the EGT's improve I consider it a win. If spool up and mileage increase, that's icing on the cake. Power/dyno numbers is last and something I don't expect from a diesel camshaft. I'm looking to improve V/E of the motor with a cam, not power.

With that said, towing at a high altitude the 181/210 is the way to go? I decided I'm buying a cam today, no more driving around puckered while watching the EGT needle ruin my day.

-Dustin-
 
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I believe the 181/210 is your cam. Also just make sure you do a boost leak check after the install to at least 30psi and you might play with different timing after you install the cam.

Let me know if you need anything else.
 
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