4 Door CTD Super Duty Build

Gonzo_matt

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Joined
Jan 18, 2015
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18
First post here..I'll try to make it count....

The story begins with me trying to not have a truck payment and needing more back seat room. I had a 09 2500HD Silverado ECSB with the 6.0. It was an ok truck, but the gas mileage sucked and I just never really l warmed up to it. I had sold a regular cab 01.5 HO CTD ram with some work done to it to get it (needed a back seat), and always missed the diesel. While I owned my Chebby, I sold my landscaping business and started a used car dealer, so I use my trucks primarily to tow, and typically have whatever cars I have for sale to drive as dailys. Someone came along who wanted the Silverado a lot, he wrote me a decent check, I paid it off and had enough jingle in my pocket to buy a beater 2000 F250 gasser on 37's to use as a tow rig. It works well enough...for now..

So after dealing with the car seat in the extended cab trucks for long enough, I decided I would hunt for a 4 door. I also have ended up in a position where towing one car at a time is not as economically sound as using a goose or wedge to haul multiples, and I am sorta selfish, so I decided to go diesel again. I never was really fond of my chevy, and I have owned a few dodges, but they don't really do it for me. I have loved all of the super duty trucks I have owned, they fit me, I like how they look, they just are what I prefer, not saying any one brand is better, but for me, it had to be a super duty. Ideally a 01-07.

I started watching the dealer sales close for a good truck, and at a good price and ended up deciding that I wasn't going to pay what they were selling for, especially to buy a truck that another dealer might be dumping because of problems.

I decided to buy a wrecked rebuilder instead. My train of thought was that the truck was probably running fine when it was wrecked, and I can do body work easy enough. So I started watching the salvage auctions like a hawk. An 03 6.0 truck came up online in Knoxville ( I am near Columbus, Ohio), and I somehow snagged it at auction for $1800. It was abandoned, missing the bed and airbags, and had 240k miles, but said it ran and drove. The cab looked great though, so I figured even if it was junk, I could part it out and still win on it.

So, we hooked the goose to my brother in law's farm truck and hit the road a few days later. We arrived in Knoxville 500 miles later and the loader operator brought my truck out. Looked pretty good, and I was satisfied with my purchase. It is a Lariat and has every option but a moon roof.

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Now, I'll have to explain what the term "run and drive" means to the auction yard as compared to basically the rest of society. I have bought "run and drive" cars that smoke like chainsaws, that rattle, that knock, that really have junk engines. The batteries are always, and I mean always dead. The employees at the auction can never seem to get the hang of the "OFF" position on the key switch.

So, with that said, I did not have high hopes for the drive-ability of this truck. Plus it is an early 6.0, and we all know the horror stories.

Regardless, we drove the 500 miles home, in the rain, and snow, and freezing rain, and sleet, and fog.......it kinda sucked.

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Got home, got unloaded, put a battery charger on it, let it sit for about 20 min. I looked it over a little better while the battery charged, and saw it had a 4" straight pipe, but otherwise looked stock. EGR still in place, stock airbox, etc. Coolant looks ok, had a slight hiss when we opened the degas bottle, and the oil was low but not full of coolant so I was optimistic about the head gaskets. With a jump from my other truck, it cranked three times and fired right up. It drops into high idle, the turbo sounds cool, no white smoke, heat works after a bit...
 
Ok, so I'm feeling pretty damn smug at this point. I really got a good running, completely rust free, 4 door, diesel, 4x4, truck for $1800.

Then reality set in. First, after it warmed up, it dropped about a quart of oil on the ground. A lot of crawling around revealed what looks to be a leaky ICP sensor...while under there, I started to really note how cramped and complex the 6.0 engine bay is. Then after the trans warmed up, it kicked into limp mode....pulling the codes shows a bad trans temp sensor.

I began to weigh my options. To make this truck where I am going to really trust it on long trips, I'm going to need to bullet proof the EGR and oil coolers. It needs a $150 sensor that sucks to change. The trans needs opened, and with 240k, I'm prob going to want it gone through before I tow heavy. Even after I do all this, I have one of the most notoriously crappy light diesel engines ever produced with 240k miles and zero history of what has happens to it in it's life.

I had previously helped a friend plop a 12v/NV4500 into a gas super duty. I knew the ins and outs and what the end truck would be. I knew I already had a radiator and intercooler in my truck that could be adapted....I knew that I didn't want to deal with an engine that has a bunch of electronics. I knew I had owned MDT trucks with 12v's and was familiar with them. I knew I preferred to have a manual trans. I knew I wanted a flat bill and a big "C" in the back window, with stacks.....(not really)

So, I figured screw it, I'm ditching the 6.0 and going 12v with a manual trans. I did some heavy duty searching, and after a few false starts, I located a 12v with a documented 146k miles, along with a G5600, and t case for a really solid price. I am going tomorrow to scoop all of that stuff up, and will be listing the 6.0 and 5R100 for sale soon.

As of right now, I have the nuts and bolts of the swap figured out (as much as they can be before it's torn into. We are finishing my new shop first, which has a 2 post lift to pull the cab, so it will be weather permitting at this point.

In the mean time, I am doing my home work on making as much of the ford stuff still work with the 12v/G5600. I would like nothing more than to be able to keep all of my dash gauges working, and to figure out how to make cruise control work in it still.

I'm also watching the auction for another truck with a good bed that I can part out. I expect to have to go south for it as well, since the road salt here really destroys everything quick.
 
My current hurdle I am trying to over come is transfer cases.

The Ford is a electric shift NV273. The Dodge is a manual shift 271.

I would prefer to keep the Ford case, the electric shift doesn't bother me, and that way I can retain the for driveshafts and speed sensor. I think I can just swap input shafts from a dodge 271 or 273 into it.

Ideas?
 
Welcome! Good first post.
Keep the ford transfer case and swap the input shaft to a 29 spline. I think I bought one from all state gear for around $100.
The transfer case is easy to split and but you'll need to go ahead and have a new seal for the front drve output shaft since it has to be pulled to split the t case
 
Welcome! Good first post.
Keep the ford transfer case and swap the input shaft to a 29 spline. I think I bought one from all state gear for around $100.
The transfer case is easy to split and but you'll need to go ahead and have a new seal for the front drve output shaft since it has to be pulled to split the t case

Thanks. Yeah, I did some more google searching with better terms and talked to a guy I know who does transfer cases and he advised me the same way, just swap inputs. Works for me, as I got a dodge 271 in the package with everything, so selling it off takes my total investment in engine and trans down to $3500.
 
I don't know if I missed it in the post or not, and I can't tell from the pictures, long or short bed?
 
I don't know if I missed it in the post or not, and I can't tell from the pictures, long or short bed?

Short. Long beds are not too hard to come by, there are several companies around here that build service trucks and have stacks of new take offs. Short beds on the other hand, they pull a premium. I can buy a complete truck that was hit in the front for what a short bed and gate costs on it's own.

I haven't ruled out a flatbed. Yet. I did a few quick drawings to see how I felt about it. Still on the fence.

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Helluva first post, welcome sir

superb into thread, my man!

welcome to the forum :)

Thanks, I've already leaned a lot off of reading other builds on here, so I figured It wouldn't hurt to give back and having multiple sets of eyes watching can't hurt either.

My end game with this is to have around 10-15k invested into a truck that is comparable or better to buying a new 4 door for 50k. I want comfort, reliability, easy to maintain, and good looking. I picked this truck to start since it was from the south and rust free.

I'm tracking everything in a spreadsheet, so I will know how far off my estimate is.

Thus far:
Truck $1800
Fuel/food to retrieve $300
Airbags From ebay $80
Stereo from ebay $160
Stereo wiring-amazon $5
12v/G5600/NV271 $4000
Sold NV271 -$500

Total as of now $5845

I still have a good running 6.0/5R100 combo to sell or part out. Should recoup a fair amount from that. I have drawings for motor mounts and we are fabbing those ourselves.

I helped a buddy do a 12v/nv4500/nv241D into an f350 that started as a 5.4 auto, so I'm not a full on rookie and we have his truck to measure stuff off of for setting it up.
 
My short list of stuff I am currently after. I want to have everything here before I tear into it, and will have already done the KDP, and as many new gaskets as I can reasonably get to on the 12v.

  • Gas super duty accelerator pedal
  • Clutch pedal
  • Dodge clutch master cylinder
  • motor mounts
  • driveshaft rework ( will take the whole chassis to the driveline shop after the engine and trans are in )
  • radiator hoses (combo of 99-02 7.3 and CTD lower, stock dodge upper)
  • exhaust mainfold from industrial application (still trying to figure this one out, I can't remember what we used last time)
  • clutch (prob southbend, still in the deciding phase)
  • cruise box ( from gas truck ?)
  • send pump out for 3kgsk, DV, plate, and tuning
  • bump timing
  • downpipe
  • dodge input shaft for nv273
  • tach sensor, (posibly homebrew with the 6.0 pickup)
  • build a mount for the 6.0 alternator
  • lift pump (looking for a used fass or airdog, might build our own)
  • fabricate air intake, maybe use stock ford stuff, flipped to the passenger
    side
  • figure out how to make stock 6.0 oil pressure and coolant temp sensors work with the 12v
  • find a use for the now dead trans temp gauge in the dash
  • splice wires to make truck think it is in neutral for keyswitch and electric transfer cash shifting to work
  • ford shifter boot and hardware
 
My short list of stuff I am currently after. I want to have everything here before I tear into it, and will have already done the KDP, and as many new gaskets as I can reasonably get to on the 12v.

  • Gas super duty accelerator pedal
  • Clutch pedal
    [*]Dodge clutch master cylinder
  • motor mounts
  • driveshaft rework ( will take the whole chassis to the driveline shop after the engine and trans are in )
  • radiator hoses (combo of 99-02 7.3 and CTD lower, stock dodge upper)
  • exhaust mainfold from industrial application (still trying to figure this one out, I can't remember what we used last time)
  • clutch (prob southbend, still in the deciding phase)
  • cruise box ( from gas truck ?)
  • send pump out for 3kgsk, DV, plate, and tuning
  • bump timing
  • downpipe
  • dodge input shaft for nv273
  • tach sensor, (posibly homebrew with the 6.0 pickup)
  • build a mount for the 6.0 alternator
  • lift pump (looking for a used fass or airdog, might build our own)
  • fabricate air intake, maybe use stock ford stuff, flipped to the passenger
    side
  • figure out how to make stock 6.0 oil pressure and coolant temp sensors work with the 12v
  • find a use for the now dead trans temp gauge in the dash
  • splice wires to make truck think it is in neutral for keyswitch and electric transfer cash shifting to work
  • ford shifter boot and hardware
Use the ford master and tubing and adapt a dodge slave to it. This simplifies how to mount the master to the ford clutch pedal and firewall hole, as well as making it easy to mount the slave to the two bolts on the nv4500.
 
Use the ford master and tubing and adapt a dodge slave to it. This simplifies how to mount the master to the ford clutch pedal and firewall hole, as well as making it easy to mount the slave to the two bolts on the nv4500.

I'm using a G56. I had read else where that a Ford clutch master cylinder didn't have the correct bore to operate the Dodge slave cylinder?
 
Haha. Lucky fer me I dont read none too good. If I had, I might have never done it (and had it work perfectly):woohoo:

Although mine was an nv4500. Cant speak to the differences on a g56
 
Haha. Lucky fer me I dont read none too good. If I had, I might have never done it (and had it work perfectly):woohoo:

Although mine was an nv4500. Cant speak to the differences on a g56

I'll have to compare bore sizes between the ford and dodge. Might just work. Thanks

It seems like it was maybe in Griggs? thread that they tried the ford master with the G56 and it didn't work right.
 
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I seem to recall that the Ford masters don't push enough fluid to operate the Dodge slave far enough out. I made a small bracket for the spin-lock Dodge master. It's an OBS though, not sure what the 6.0 has for mounting studs.

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When I did the NV4500 swap in the 6.0L chassis I took the clutch bracket. Machined master cylinder mount over by I believe 8mm to accommodate the larger 2nd gen clutch master cylinder. You then have to grind down some of the webbing flat so you can twist lock the hydros in place. I used South bend part# hyd-hd. Had to modify the upper side of the fire wall some to get the master supply line not to hit the fire wall. The only downside to this is it took a lot of time to make it work and the clutch pedal sat high in the cab with the fixed position rod.

Looking back in hind site if I was to do it again I would use probably Southbend PN HYDX1.5 Line the master cylinder up so I don't have the modify the wire wall. Mark the bracket and pierce the bracket with two mounting holes instead of the twist lock setup.

Also the other advantage to this is there is an adjustable clutch rod so you can bring the pedal throw back down once done.

- I also am very interested in knowing the Ford master will adapt to the Nv4500, G56, NV5600 Slave. That can save a lot of head ache.
 
When I did the NV4500 swap in the 6.0L chassis I took the clutch bracket. Machined master cylinder mount over by I believe 8mm to accommodate the larger 2nd gen clutch master cylinder. You then have to grind down some of the webbing flat so you can twist lock the hydros in place. I used South bend part# hyd-hd. Had to modify the upper side of the fire wall some to get the master supply line not to hit the fire wall. The only downside to this is it took a lot of time to make it work and the clutch pedal sat high in the cab with the fixed position rod.

Looking back in hind site if I was to do it again I would use probably Southbend PN HYDX1.5 Line the master cylinder up so I don't have the modify the wire wall. Mark the bracket and pierce the bracket with two mounting holes instead of the twist lock setup.

Also the other advantage to this is there is an adjustable clutch rod so you can bring the pedal throw back down once done.

- I also am very interested in knowing the Ford master will adapt to the Nv4500, G56, NV5600 Slave. That can save a lot of head ache.

That southbend part is nice, but hard to swallow for $315 when I can conceivably use a $30 junkyard part and fabricate the stuff to make it work. I have access to a mil and lathe, so making one off parts isn't a big issue.
 
From this post on 4bt swaps:

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?36657-Building-a-2005-F250-with-99-6BT-and-07-G56-manual&p=377266&viewfull=1#post377266

"Could use a little help on the clutch master cylinder. Trying to use the Dodge master looks like the push rod is not quite long enough. Any ideas or do we need to cut and weld to make it work?
EDIT Southbend who supplied the complete Dodge clutch master and slave setup as part of the clutch package says they have a solution for our situation and will do a simple trade.

Grigg "

He used the Dodge master cylinder with a different push rod.

Also, I picked up the Cummins stuff today, seller wasn't educated on this stuff, trans is actually a NV5600, which I prefer due to gear ratios, but damn, it's heavy
 
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