5.9CR Pulsewidth/Timing Gauge

C

Charles

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If someone were to make something that would clip inline to the crank/cam position sensor, and also inline with the number 1 injector plug, and that placed a small LCD screen in the cab that displayed ACTUAL Injector Pulsewidth and ACTUAL Injection Timing (the call to fire) would anyone be interested?

And what would you pay? I'm just curious.
 
Yeah. Might be useful.

But once one person reports what each box does on each setting. Why would I spend the money?
 
Every truck is different. I'd say it would be a good tuning tool...if we could actually tune our trucks.
 
UNBROKEN said:
Every truck is different. I'd say it would be a good tuning tool...if we could actually tune our trucks.
Click to expand...

Yes and no, mostly maybe so.

From a hardware and software engineering perspective, not as much as you'd think (tho, it multiplies for each programmer you wanna capture data for).

Each year will have a different ECU SO/HO 03-04. 04.5. 05. 07. Slight variations of software and hardware in STOCK form. However that's only a handful of differences. I'm curious how different Marco's software is between 04.5 and 08 once a smarty is applied. Naturally the 03-04 software is different.

How different really is that ECU. Does an 08 have a faster CPU then 04.5?

So, theoretical command maximum output should be identical between same years trucks. Could be the same for same generation of software (03-04 vs 04.5-early06 vs late06-08)

I'm unclear on this part, but how does load get calculated? Is it rate of RPM increase and fueling necessary to do XYZ RPM "rev gain"? Intake temps, water temps, boost, etc ,etc ,etc. I'm sure play a role, most lilky manipulating the max timing and pulse width. so this is where I'd say yeah, each truck is differnet.

You then factor in injector nozzle, that'll load things up differently. Amount of pumps..

But one things remains the same, the max the software has to offer, how we can trigger that command with supporting hardware is a problem.

I see this tool for a shop to use to diagnose problems, but cant' you gather this data from the DRB tool?

Rich, if you can do EFILive like tool on the CR, then that will invalidate this tool even further.
 
All you would need is a dual-trace oscilloscope, right?

Backprobe one of the injector drivers for the first wave, then backprobe the engine position sensor for the second wave. Then you could see how many milliseconds are in between the engine position sensor's pulse and the inector's pulse, and once you know the time in between it's only a little bit of manual math to determine degrees of advance (and duration) at a given RPM.

A computer program could be written on a USB oscilloscope to base RPM off of the engine position sensor's signal, and then it could do that little bit of math for you. You could probably use some faux-programming like LabView to do that for you.


Something like a Snap-On Modis or Vantage Pro attached to an engine harness with a couple sewing needles should be able to give the same information on a dynometer, I would imagine. I'm willing to bet that somebody has done it, even if they're not talking. It wouldn't take long or be too hard, unless I'm missing something.
 
Charles said:
If someone were to make something that would clip inline to the crank/cam position sensor, and also inline with the number 1 injector plug, and that placed a small LCD screen in the cab that displayed ACTUAL Injector Pulsewidth and ACTUAL Injection Timing (the call to fire) would anyone be interested?

And what would you pay? I'm just curious.
Click to expand...


I just spent 3 grand on a fluke ScopeMeter Portable Oscilloscope so I can data log timing, pulsewidth, pilot, and post injection.

Three easy payments of $14.95 would be nice.... and I'll take 2.






JasonCzerak said:
Yes and no, mostly maybe so.

From a hardware and software engineering perspective, not as much as you'd think (tho, it multiplies for each programmer you wanna capture data for).


How different really is that ECU. Does an 08 have a faster CPU then 04.5?

So, theoretical command maximum output should be identical between same years trucks. Could be the same for same generation of software (03-04 vs 04.5-early06 vs late06-08)

I'm unclear on this part, but how does load get calculated? Is it rate of RPM increase and fueling necessary to do XYZ RPM "rev gain"? Intake temps, water temps, boost, etc ,etc ,etc. I'm sure play a role, most lilky manipulating the max timing and pulse width. so this is where I'd say yeah, each truck is differnet.

You then factor in injector nozzle, that'll load things up differently. Amount of pumps..

But one things remains the same, the max the software has to offer, how we can trigger that command with supporting hardware is a problem.

I see this tool for a shop to use to diagnose problems, but cant' you gather this data from the DRB tool?

Rich, if you can do EFILive like tool on the CR, then that will invalidate this tool even further.
Click to expand...


:bang Your kidding right, from a engineering hardware/software/tuning perspective a data log of this information is invaluable. :end :bang




Begle1 said:
All you would need is a dual-trace oscilloscope, right?

Backprobe one of the injector drivers for the first wave, then backprobe the engine position sensor for the second wave. Then you could see how many milliseconds are in between the engine position sensor's pulse and the inector's pulse, and once you know the time in between it's only a little bit of manual math to determine degrees of advance (and duration) at a given RPM.

A computer program could be written on a USB oscilloscope to base RPM off of the engine position sensor's signal, and then it could do that little bit of math for you. You could probably use some faux-programming like LabView to do that for you.


Something like a Snap-On Modis or Vantage Pro attached to an engine harness with a couple sewing needles should be able to give the same information on a dynometer, I would imagine. I'm willing to bet that somebody has done it, even if they're not talking. It wouldn't take long or be too hard, unless I'm missing something.
Click to expand...




Right on the money on this one....however not very handy unless your strapped to a dyno, and can eyeball it under load or even driving and road manners. Could rig a poor mans data log I suppose....video camera.

I just probe my TST harness, all you need is right there.
 
Joesixpack said:
:bang Your kidding right, from a engineering hardware/software/tuning perspective a data log of this information is invaluable. :end :bang
Click to expand...


Then do tell what your numbers are for what settings you've collected from.

My main point is, to the "masses" it's pointless. once a few tells us what the numbers actually are at WOT.

If we could tune EFILive style, then we'd know that info and what the motor called for via DRB right?

Once those numbers are known publicly, one can make a choice on injector, pump, turbo.

So, I suppose if no one creates a spreadsheet of the numbers, we'll all have to get one.
 
There is a local to Minnesota (maybe iowa?) They replace the glowplugs in his DMAX with a pressure sensor. naturally it was something that could deal with the heat too.

He was able to data log cylinder pressure on his laptop. Naturally fairly simple on a DMAX.
 
If someone were to make something that would clip inline to the crank/cam position sensor, and also inline with the number 1 injector plug, and that placed a small LCD screen in the cab that displayed ACTUAL Injector Pulsewidth and ACTUAL Injection Timing (the call to fire) would anyone be interested?

And what would you pay? I'm just curious.
Click to expand...

I'd be very interested in this, and imagine many others would be as well once they figured out how useful this would be.

At work we clamp a current probe around an injector wire and reference the signal to cam/crank/etc to get timing, duration, etc. I've wanted to try to package something for our trucks, but just have too many other things going.

I would be willing to pay a few hundred or so for something simple, or a little more depending on complexity.

I think it's a GREAT idea, and definately worth pursueing.

--Eric
 
JasonCzerak said:
There is a local to Minnesota (maybe iowa?) They replace the glowplugs in his DMAX with a pressure sensor. naturally it was something that could deal with the heat too.

He was able to data log cylinder pressure on his laptop. Naturally fairly simple on a DMAX.
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea how expensive CP testing equipment is?? I do......."fairly simple" AND "cheap" are not part of the product description:bang


I would be very interested also Charlie!!
 
There is a local to Minnesota (maybe iowa?) They replace the glowplugs in his DMAX with a pressure sensor. naturally it was something that could deal with the heat too.

He was able to data log cylinder pressure on his laptop. Naturally fairly simple on a DMAX.

Did I say cheap? didn't think so. Fairly simple to plug in to the motor. The software didn't look to complicated from the questions I asked last year.

The cool factor was rather cool.
 
There is a local to Minnesota (maybe iowa?) They replace the glowplugs in his DMAX with a pressure sensor. naturally it was something that could deal with the heat too.

He was able to data log cylinder pressure on his laptop. Naturally fairly simple on a DMAX.
Click to expand...

Did I say cheap? didn't think so. Fairly simple to plug in to the motor. The software didn't look to complicated from the questions I asked last year.

The cool factor was rather cool.
 
I would be interested in one - can you have it here in the next 15 minutes? I currently HATE CR's. Got one with a electrical nightmare.
 
Right on the money on this one....however not very handy unless your strapped to a dyno, and can eyeball it under load or even driving and road manners. Could rig a poor mans data log I suppose....video camera.

I just probe my TST harness, all you need is right there.[/QUOTE]

The Modis and Vantage Pro will record 2000 frames of data at 6 million time a second before writing over itself a Verus will record 23.5 hours or till the hard drive is full with the 4 channel scope i think would do what you are want. I was a Diagnostic Sales Developer for Snap-on
 
Interesting!

How about adding another function? Just a 'simple' wire or two more and break the crank position sensor wiring so you can vary it's output (To vary timing!)
 
The Verus acts just like a Laptop, any functions you can do with a laptop you can do with a Verus, i.e i have a guy that put EFI LIve on a Verus. So with that said you can have multiple windows open at the same time, so if you could write or find a program that was able to add timing with a laptop it could be used on the Verus and still be able to watch all the sensors throw the scope. The scope will not add/contol any function meaning you couldnt change the timing with the scope but could watch and record all of the data 4 channels/sensors at the same time on the same screen for as long as you want it to. You can also run through the OBDII port at the same time. In some cases through the functional tests you can actually bump timing on some vehicles as a test, it wont stay there once the unit is removed but you can very it a good bit.
 
Jeremy, two Solus questions....

Is there any way to read timing with my Solus.

Where can I get my screen fixed? It has a blue dot in the middle of it about the size of a dime.
 
SmokinCummins said:
Jeremy, two Solus questions....

Is there any way to read timing with my Solus.

Where can I get my screen fixed? It has a blue dot in the middle of it about the size of a dime.
Click to expand...

The only way to read it with the solus is if it is under the data stream where you can see all the sensors either through the PIDS or graphing or through the functional tests, you can also check fast track dats scan, im on my way to a pull but i have my Modis with me and will check through it to see if i can find it in there. As for the dot is it just on the screen or is the pixels gone it will probally need to be give to your dealer and sent in for repair, Solus or Solus Pro?
 
DISTURBED said:
The Verus acts just like a Laptop, any functions you can do with a laptop you can do with a Verus, i.e i have a guy that put EFI LIve on a Verus. So with that said you can have multiple windows open at the same time, so if you could write or find a program that was able to add timing with a laptop it could be used on the Verus and still be able to watch all the sensors throw the scope. The scope will not add/contol any function meaning you couldnt change the timing with the scope but could watch and record all of the data 4 channels/sensors at the same time on the same screen for as long as you want it to. You can also run through the OBDII port at the same time. In some cases through the functional tests you can actually bump timing on some vehicles as a test, it wont stay there once the unit is removed but you can very it a good bit.
Click to expand...

Now that is a sweet unit.
 
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