6.7 HG issues.

Snedge

Comp Diesel Sponsor
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Sep 1, 2006
Messages
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I talk to a lot of people. In my ramblings I have realized that a very large majority of the folks with HG issues on the 6.7 Cummins, have had the EGR cooler bypassed/deleted.

Who has had head gasket coolant leakage issues with their cooler in place and operational ??

WTH? WTF?

Discussion ?
 
You noticed that as well huh?

There is definitely a pattern involved. I still have my cooler but deleted everything else. No leaks........... yet knock on wood.
 
The truck I bought blew the head gasket around 240,000 miles all stock. But the previous owner fixed it.
Would a coolent bypass kit help more?
 
I still have my stock HG, and I've been low 11's a few times this year. All of them mid 12's or faster. One of my work truck had issues and turned out the driver was turning the tune up when I didn''t know. New HG, new driver, new ARP's, and no problems
 
well what we have tested and played with and found out over the last 8 months or so with this is the following

1. the VGT exhaust side is to small to keep up with exhaust gasses much over stock volumes.

2. With the Egr cooler in place and FUNCTIONING it performs like a wastegate only instead of blowing the excess gasses out the exhasut pipe it recirculates them into the intake manifold (by product it keeps Drive Pressures lower)

3. Removing the cooler and egr is still one of the VERY best things you can do for your engine (i have dozzens of pics of engines with functioning systems on them when I put a new intkae horn on them. Absolutely horrible and scray crap being recirculated through the engine.

4. All of this is easily controlled by putting a "EXHAUST WASTE GATE" kit on the truck the cooler ports n the factory exhaust manifold make it easier to make a kit, which we did to bolt on a EWG and control the drive pressures which also increases some usable torque by freeing it up from previously Parastatic loss of pushing all those higher pressures around in there
 
I know of two that have blown. One was an 08 with a Smarty, MP8, 100hp tips, PDI Manifold, and a SPS64. The stock head bolts were pulled and replaced with studs. It lasted probably 15,000 miles making around 45psi.
The other truck was all stock except for deletes and Smarty TNT.

And personally I think MLS headgaskets SUCK
 
the MLS headgaskets are not the best thing in the world that is a fact. the layers seperate when the head lifts and allows the compression to blow into the coolant passes. I know a guy who was running Arps 625 and still blew 2 Gaskets, put an exhaust wastegate kit on and is now over 800 HP and has not had another headgasket problem.
 
WTH? WTF?

Jeff, after I sent Brendan to you for a new head he told me that was a concern of yours - short answer is that water jacket and/or exhaust manifold conditions cannot blow a headgasket (pressures are a couple magnitudes lower than what HGs are designed to reliably withstand).

You noticed that as well huh?

There is definitely a pattern involved. I still have my cooler but deleted everything else.

You're right about the pattern - EGR deletes are almost always found with mods which increase power production. ;)

Would a coolent bypass kit help more?

Yes - while BOE kits help retain freeze plugs in the block & head and reduce pump drive HP, don't expect them to "save" your MLS.

1. the VGT exhaust side is to small to keep up with exhaust gasses much over stock volumes.

2. With the Egr cooler in place and FUNCTIONING it performs like a wastegate only instead of blowing the excess gasses out the exhasut pipe it recirculates them into the intake manifold (by product it keeps Drive Pressures lower)

3. Removing the cooler and egr is still one of the VERY best things you can do for your engine (i have dozzens of pics of engines with functioning systems on them when I put a new intkae horn on them. Absolutely horrible and scray crap being recirculated through the engine.

4. All of this is easily controlled by putting a "EXHAUST WASTE GATE" kit on the truck the cooler ports n the factory exhaust manifold make it easier to make a kit, which we did to bolt on a EWG and control the drive pressures which also increases some usable torque by freeing it up from previously Parastatic loss of pushing all those higher pressures around in there

1. HE351VE has a larger hot side than the 5.9L 351 Holsets - TIP issues have as much to do with less than ideal nozzle geometry (housing range is ~3-21cm) for operating conditions as anything else.
I'll be the first to say 409 cubes need more cowbell than 359 do, but drive pressure ratios don't get anymore out of control on the 6.7L than the 5.9L

2. Classic Hobson's choice - I'd rather have excessive TIP than pump soot back through the engine, but the OEM reversion cam will do a pretty good job of backing that up to the intake at high drive pressure ratos anyhow.

3. Agree completely!

4. Adding an external gate makes it easier to keep the Holset as the secondary in a twinset... ironically, reducing excessive drive pressure decreases pumping losses & helps eliminate charge contamination - increasing power production & the possibility of blowing a HG.

And personally I think MLS headgaskets SUCK

The MLS functions pretty well for what it's designed to do - reliable sealing using OEM mass-production techniques - but they have a finite performance envelope.
With the 6.7L's higher peak-torque cylinder pressure, increased combustion deck area, narrower inter-hole web widths and shorter paths to the water jacket - it's 4-layer MLS runs a lot closer to the edge of it's capability than the 5-layer 5.9L version.

Also, on a side note - many machine shops aren't capable of surfacing a head (or block) with a fine enough RA finish... the MLS's Viton layers are only ~3-5 microns thick - don't expect that to fill the valleys in a typical 50-60 RA grind.

:Cheer:
 
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I keep hearing how drive pressures blow hg's, how is this possible? How can 80psi of exhaust pressure even come close to the 3000+ thats going on on the power stroke? Lowering dp's will help with top end power and everything that comes along with parasitic losses but one thing it has very little to do with is head gaskets.

For the one guy that added a wg and he stopped popping gaskets is probably a couple things. he dropped his boost levels more then likely which will have an effect on his peak cylinder pressures and also it could have just been a coincedence that its not blown one in awhile.

I would agree with most of the gasket failures are coming along with more power mods that follow the egr delete. 6.7's make more tqu then 5.9's wich increases peak cylinder pressures, that along with the larger bore decreasing usable gasket area makes for more blown hg's. MHO anyway...
 
I keep hearing how drive pressures blow hg's, how is this possible? How can 80psi of exhaust pressure even come close to the 3000+ thats going on on the power stroke? Lowering dp's will help with top end power and everything that comes along with parasitic losses but one thing it has very little to do with is head gaskets.

For the one guy that added a wg and he stopped popping gaskets is probably a couple things. he dropped his boost levels more then likely which will have an effect on his peak cylinder pressures and also it could have just been a coincedence that its not blown one in awhile.

I would agree with most of the gasket failures are coming along with more power mods that follow the egr delete. 6.7's make more tqu then 5.9's wich increases peak cylinder pressures, that along with the larger bore decreasing usable gasket area makes for more blown hg's. MHO anyway...
This is the best explanation I have heard so far:clap:
 
Ive got a 2007.5 6.7 with dpf delete and egr block off with smarty s-67 and i left the egr cooler. the truck started running hot but the temp was up and down so i changed the thermostat but it still gets hot going down the road and blows coolant out the overflow. i was wondering if me leaving the egr cooler on could have anything to do with this or if its for sure the HG. any ideas
 
Truble6.7

Im no expert but from what Ive seen/read, that is a blown HG...
 
Im in on this one too. I have a blown HG and still have all my emissions crap on the truck and working. I was running the smarty S not the ME on sw#3 all default. I was running the 14 when it blew the HG. I just had to try 14, everyone was talking about how great it was. I knew guys had blown HGs on it because they thought it had a bit too much timing but i didnt think that sw#3 all default would even be a concern. I ran it for 3 or 4 days on 14 and the HG let go. I never even hit 25 PSI of boost either. I have no idea how the DP #s were because i do not have a DP guage.
 
I keep hearing how drive pressures blow hg's, how is this possible? How can 80psi of exhaust pressure even come close to the 3000+ thats going on on the power stroke? Lowering dp's will help with top end power and everything that comes along with parasitic losses but one thing it has very little to do with is head gaskets.

For the one guy that added a wg and he stopped popping gaskets is probably a couple things. he dropped his boost levels more then likely which will have an effect on his peak cylinder pressures and also it could have just been a coincedence that its not blown one in awhile.

I would agree with most of the gasket failures are coming along with more power mods that follow the egr delete. 6.7's make more tqu then 5.9's wich increases peak cylinder pressures, that along with the larger bore decreasing usable gasket area makes for more blown hg's. MHO anyway...


Finally someone that sees it the way I do! THANK YOU! I'm a nobody, so when I say the DP doesn't matter no one cares. The larger bore is killing the HG's due to reduced meat between the cylinders and the larger piston area looking up.
 
With the 6.7L's higher peak-torque cylinder pressure, increased combustion deck area, narrower inter-hole web widths and shorter paths to the water jacket - it's 4-layer MLS runs a lot closer to the edge of it's capability than the 5-layer 5.9L version.:Cheer:

Finally someone that sees it the way I do! THANK YOU! I'm a nobody, so when I say the DP doesn't matter no one cares. The larger bore is killing the HG's due to reduced meat between the cylinders and the larger piston area looking up.

LOL
This stuff should be old news by now - on this & many other threads... :bang
 
LOL
This stuff should be old news by now - on this & many other threads... :bang

I hear that :thankyou2:
I have had my sh!t deleted at 4000 miles and now have 65000, XRT on 175 forabout a year now and on 120 for 1 year, running II twins with stocker for small and S475, don't know DP because I don't have gauge
so if the Headgasket goes what do ya do
I have 425 studs also and hit 50 lbs of boost
most of the gaskets that are blow have been with smarty(not bashing smarty)
:blahblah1:
 
I hear that :thankyou2:
I have had my sh!t deleted at 4000 miles and now have 65000, XRT on 175 forabout a year now and on 120 for 1 year, running II twins with stocker for small and S475, don't know DP because I don't have gauge
so if the Headgasket goes what do ya do
I have 425 studs also and hit 50 lbs of boost
most of the gaskets that are blow have been with smarty(not bashing smarty)
:blahblah1:

well I have had H&S on mine both times it has blown. last time it blew with 625s and a larger turbo. hopefully this time will have been the last time the HG blows
 
I'm a newbie to these 6.7s, i use this truck for work. Everyone has such great ideas as to why they blow hg, what is recomended to keep the hg. I would like to keep the truck mild for towing and mpgs but i have a hard time leaving anything stock.
625s
EWG
coolant by-pass
does this sound like the best way or should i be looking to off the turbo too, im sure someone will tell me this won't work either. just the way the thread is going
 
I'm a newbie to these 6.7s, i use this truck for work. Everyone has such great ideas as to why they blow hg, what is recomended to keep the hg. I would like to keep the truck mild for towing and mpgs but i have a hard time leaving anything stock.
625s
EWG
coolant by-pass
does this sound like the best way or should i be looking to off the turbo too, im sure someone will tell me this won't work either. just the way the thread is going

truck basically comes stock with one but the rest of the stuff is a good idea
 
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