Another timing question

Drothgeb

Drothgeb

Almost Fast-N-Loud
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Sep 18, 2010
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I 've been running 18* for a while, it does 11.9sec shifting at 3000, OD at about 2700. I decided to bump the timing some to see if I could knock off a tenth or two shifting at 3200-3300.

Last night I set it to 24* and took it for a test drive. Besides being harder to start and much louder, it doesn't spool worth a damn and smoke like a pig. Maybe it is faster once it gets rolling, but I'd never get a decent 60' the way it spools.

I'm thinking that I'll drop back to about 20* and see how it runs. But I'm really surprised how bad it spools at 24*. My converter is 1800-1900rpm stall, and I was hard pressed to get any boost out of it at all. I know a lot of you are running mid 20s, are you all running higher stall coverters? Maybe I did screw up and the thing is set in the 30s, but I really don't think so.
 
Every setup will react differently is what I have learned from my own experiences and reading/talking to others. I noticed a big hit in spool from 23 to 28-28.5 i'm at now but with my spool flange I can overcome it easily with the s400 single I run. I also noticed a much stronger top end however. My stall is around 2200 (stock stall from Goerend).

Also, smoke went down for me as well.

What injection pump and what dial gauge reading did you use to equate 24*?
 
Drothgeb said:
Maybe I did screw up and the thing is set in the 30s, but I really don't think so.
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Not sure where you are, but If you were closer I'd let you use my timing light.

I love having it just to be 100% positive about my timing.
 
I've got the 160hp pump. Lift was set at .314", so it should be a little less than 24*. One thing, when I bought the truck the tag was corroded off the pump, so I don't know exactly which pump it is. I know that some 95s were actually 180hp pumps, but I never got the impression that mine was cause of the way it ran at 18*. But it rattles so bad right now, I'm not so sure anymore. I see the CPLs for the 49 state and California trucks, but mine is a Canadian truck, so I'm not sure.

A couple of weeks ago I went from 5x16s to 5x18s, and that hurt spooling too. Before, 20psi+ was not a problem, after, it was a struggle to hit 15psi. Even broke an output shaft sitting on the line. After that I talked to Dave about going to the stock rpm converter, but was hoping that the timing bump might help. Looks like I'll be calling Dave again. Just wasn't looking forward to pulling the trans again after doing the output last week.
 
Drothgeb said:
I've got the 160hp pump. Lift was set at .314", so it should be a little less than 24*. One thing, when I bought the truck the tag was corroded off the pump, so I don't know exactly which pump it is. I know that some 95s were actually 180hp pumps, but I never got the impression that mine was cause of the way it ran at 18*. But it rattles so bad right now, I'm not so sure anymore. I see the CPLs for the 49 state and California trucks, but mine is a Canadian truck, so I'm not sure.

A couple of weeks ago I went from 5x16s to 5x18s, and that hurt spooling too. Before, 20psi+ was not a problem, after, it was a struggle to hit 15psi. Even broke an output shaft sitting on the line. After that I talked to Dave about going to the stock rpm converter, but was hoping that the timing bump might help. Looks like I'll be calling Dave again. Just wasn't looking forward to pulling the trans again after doing the output last week.
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What delivery valves were in the pump originally? If 181s I would estimate you are well over 30 degrees of timing given the CA pump was a 180 IIRC. I ended up with one when ordering a 215 long ago (have a 180 now).
 
those sticks might be a bit much fuel. Were you cleaning up the 5x16s
 
mathews8pt said:
What are the specs on your 62?

You should have no problem spooling that setup IMO
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It's a 62/65/12. Spooling was never an issue before. The bigger injectors made it tougher, but the timing killed it. I didn't really expect the timing to help, but I didn't expect the injectors to hurt it. And I have tried setting the AFC from 20-80psi. While it helps the smoke, it doesn't help it spool.

NickTF said:
What delivery valves were in the pump originally? If 181s I would estimate you are well over 30 degrees of timing given the CA pump was a 180 IIRC. I ended up with one when ordering a 215 long ago (have a 180 now).
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It originally had 131s in it. Tried 181s for a while, not much of a change. Actually, the ones in it now are the same 131s that have been cut to the Comp specs. I've always had the CA pumps in the back of my mind, but have never had any indication that this was one of them.

97rada said:
those sticks might be a bit much fuel. Were you cleaning up the 5x16s
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It cleaned up the 5x16s very well. Once I got off the line, it cleared right up. Even the passes I've made with the 5x18s, it runs pretty clean. But I am running 90psi+ of boost too. Before I was 12.1-12.2 @ 109-110 mph with 1.67-1.76 60's, now with 5x18s, I'm 11.9-12.1 @ over 113 mph with 1.8-1.9 60's. I was hoping the timing bump would net high 11.7s @ around 115mph, but right now it's not worth running it.

I've never run this high a timing before, so I'm not sure how it should sound, but it rattles a lot more than I was expecting. And it started cold with one battery, but once it was warm, it took two, but then fired right up. Does that sound about right?
 
90lbs of boost out of that 62?! Thats a typo right?
 
what are you supplying that pump with? i really have a hard time seeing you clean up a 5x.18
 
I can't spool my 89 at all without spray at 27 deg. With nitrous it comes up in about two seconds *nx* :rockwoot:

Timing is huge.
 
Well for a street strip truck you have to find a comprimise between power, driveability, spool, etc. I would dial back timing to what you ran the 11.9 with and keep an eye on your drive with as much boost as you're seeing from your compounds.

Every truck is different. My truck, with a wide angle 155* injector and 28 degrees of timing fires up immediately with no grid heater. I also run comp cut delivery valves 7mm diameter and my truck is as clean as any hopped up common rail until I lay into wot.
 
97rada said:
what are you supplying that pump with? i really have a hard time seeing you clean up a 5x.18
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I've got a Raptor set at 65psi, drops to low 40s at WOT. When I say pretty clean, that's judging from the video of a run too. It's not as clean as 5x16s, but there's no noticable trail either. The intent of the 5x18s was to have plenty of fuel if I want to start spraying it, and I'm sure there's plenty.

JQmile said:
I can't spool my 89 at all without spray at 27 deg. With nitrous it comes up in about two seconds *nx* :rockwoot:

Timing is huge.
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Yeah, I did think about givin it a shot off the line. But I'm determined to get 11.7s before I start spraying.

Last night night I set it back to 20*, but it started to rain before I could take it out. I'll check out tonight and see how it does. I'm also going to look around for exhasut/boost leaks just in case.
 
I'm at 26* mathematically. I haven't verified it but I can spool my single 66 fine at 1500ft elevation. At 7000 ft it gets difficult though. I also have a stock stall converter. It might even be tighter than that.

I might drop back to 20 to see how it does down there. I'm use to the rattle but I'd like it to be a bit quieter sometimes.
 
YOUNG GUNS15 said:
I'm at 26* mathematically. I haven't verified it but I can spool my single 66 fine at 1500ft elevation. At 7000 ft it gets difficult though. I also have a stock stall converter. It might even be tighter than that.

I might drop back to 20 to see how it does down there. I'm use to the rattle but I'd like it to be a bit quieter sometimes.
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I'm only at 500', so that should be a big plus for me.

Dave said my converter is a 1800-2000 rpm. But I broke the output shaft at around 1900rpm. I talked to him about going to stock stall last week. I should probably just go ahead and do it instead of trying to force something that's obviously not going to work.
 
That was second run after installing the 5x18s in. First run I launched at 10psi, that run I was at just over 15psi, but it wouldn't spool right. And the guy in the other lane dropped back to pre-staged just as I staged. So I sat there holding it, while he staged again. Another thing too, the week before I had the 5x16s in and was getting 12.1s @ 20psi launches. The last 2 runs I pushed it to 25-30psi trying to hit 11s. Tried both lanes, lost traction in each. But I wouldn't be surprised if that was the beginning of the end for the output.
 
If you're going to increase converter stall speed you may like the increased timing. Up to you whether you want to take it back down or not. If you can't get on top of the turbo before launching you kind of don't have a choice but if the new stall allows you to get on top maybe stay at 24. Good luck.
 
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