Compound turbo build and other updates

It's controlling drive fine right now, 80 boost, 75 drive. I'll check the gate out. I'd have to get another .83 housing as mine is toast lol.


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12vCumminsFTW said:
Almost seems like drive pressure to the secondary is too low at low boost. 10 psi boost, 5 drive. 20 psi boost, 12 drive. Won't spool worth a crap and runs 1200* cruising.


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Click to expand...

I don't get it...you have less drive pressure than boost, and your EGT's are high???
It would make more sense to me if the statement was: "I have high drive pressure, low boost, and high EGT's."

I wanna try a different .83 housing on mine. (I have one off a s200)
I'd like to try a true T4 x .83 housing.
 
Extended Power said:
I don't get it...you have less drive pressure than boost, and your EGT's are high???
It would make more sense to me if the statement was: "I have high drive pressure, low boost, and high EGT's."

I wanna try a different .83 housing on mine. (I have one off a s200)
I'd like to try a true T4 x .83 housing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like under 2000 rpm drive is lower than boost. Feel like the gate is cracking open slightly but Idk. I ran that .83 s200 housing also on my twin setup and it spooled ok. I thought the .91 would light up ok still but who knows.
 
I'd be careful with no secondary charge air cooling. Buddy on cumminsforum melted his engine down running the WOP triples.
 
I think using the "air compressor regulator" to adjust boost into a gate is absolutely retarded. I know everybody does it, but it flat doesn't work. Either you are letting boost in or not; the gate doesn't flow any air, so the regulator does nothing more than a ball valve. If it's open, the gate gets all the boost going into the regulator. Hook the regulator up to shop air, and turn it in and out. Use a gauge and see the number change, then put your thumb over the outlet and see the outlet pressure go to whatever the shop air supply is. If it doesn't FLOW, it makes no difference in pressure. I can't believe how many use this, and it's pointless.

OP, try running two springs in the gate and no boost lines at all. If you can, not sure what gate you have. Make sure to leave the gate air ports open to atmosphere. I have tested this extensively on my twin setup, and ended up buying an AMS 500 to achieve the desired air pressure on the gate. All I really end up with when I put 10 or 20 on the gate in addition to the 2 springs is more back pressure. Makes very little difference in boost, trying to run the secondary harder..

I would agree with JSP, Be careful with charge air temps. I would run the truck moderately hard and stop quick and feel the charge pipe going into the motor with your hand. If it's hot, you're asking for trouble. My truck's pipe is cold after a hard blast over 100 mph and 80 psi. Both turbos going through the intercooler.... 80 into a 64, makes about 900 to the tires, stock 06 a/a intercooler.
 
Joesixpack said:
I'd be careful with no secondary charge air cooling. Buddy on cumminsforum melted his engine down running the WOP triples.
Click to expand...

Link by any chance?

Lol, hope this setup is worth the hassle. I felt the charge pipe a couple times after running it flat out and it was warm, but not insane hot or anything. I'll maybe check it with an infrared gun next time out.
 
Goinbyyabig said:
I think using the "air compressor regulator" to adjust boost into a gate is absolutely retarded. I know everybody does it, but it flat doesn't work. Either you are letting boost in or not; the gate doesn't flow any air, so the regulator does nothing more than a ball valve. If it's open, the gate gets all the boost going into the regulator. Hook the regulator up to shop air, and turn it in and out. Use a gauge and see the number change, then put your thumb over the outlet and see the outlet pressure go to whatever the shop air supply is. If it doesn't FLOW, it makes no difference in pressure. I can't believe how many use this, and it's pointless.

OP, try running two springs in the gate and no boost lines at all. If you can, not sure what gate you have. Make sure to leave the gate air ports open to atmosphere. I have tested this extensively on my twin setup, and ended up buying an AMS 500 to achieve the desired air pressure on the gate. All I really end up with when I put 10 or 20 on the gate in addition to the 2 springs is more back pressure. Makes very little difference in boost, trying to run the secondary harder..

I would agree with JSP, Be careful with charge air temps. I would run the truck moderately hard and stop quick and feel the charge pipe going into the motor with your hand. If it's hot, you're asking for trouble. My truck's pipe is cold after a hard blast over 100 mph and 80 psi. Both turbos going through the intercooler.... 80 into a 64, makes about 900 to the tires, stock 06 a/a intercooler.
Click to expand...


You need to use a quality regulator that does not creep. I've got hours on my build on the dyno using shop air as the supply and they bang on hold the pressure they are set at. I'm using a 60mm Tial dual port gate and it works very well with regulated shop air. I put about 40psi to the top of the gate to max out my build. I set it to 40 psi and it exactly stays there.


Now the OP's regulator being right in just about the hottest part of the engine compartment needs some more thought.



12vCumminsFTW said:
Link by any chance?

Lol, hope this setup is worth the hassle. I felt the charge pipe a couple times after running it flat out and it was warm, but not insane hot or anything. I'll maybe check it with an infrared gun next time out.
Click to expand...


Don't have a link, it was more of a 2+2 thing. It was a guy that was right around the 1000hp mark cleaned up real nice on the dyno and month later ect he's looking for monotherms and melted slugs. Might have been a grey truck.

I would not be surprised that air off the secondary is 200 degrees full song.
 
Joesixpack said:
I'd be careful with no secondary charge air cooling. Buddy on cumminsforum melted his engine down running the WOP triples.
Click to expand...


Talking about Brennan's truck about 2 years ago now? WOP did his setup so the air from the primaries went through the cooler. He always blamed his meltdown on II injectors
 
Joesixpack said:
I would not be surprised that air off the secondary is 200 degrees full song.
Click to expand...

Is that terrible? I have a lot to learn and that's why I'm asking. I know it's far from ideal but I wouldn't think that 200 degrees is that bad unless of course it's just ostracized by boost pressure.

Thanks for any insight
 
newsmoke said:
Is that terrible? I have a lot to learn and that's why I'm asking. I know it's far from ideal but I wouldn't think that 200 degrees is that bad unless of course it's just ostracized by boost pressure.

Thanks for any insight
Click to expand...

I should have been more clear, 200 degrees on that stage alone on top of what's feeding it. So 300 degrees+ depending on what's coming out if the intercooler.

Chrisd91 said:
Talking about Brennan's truck about 2 years ago now? WOP did his setup so the air from the primaries went through the cooler. He always blamed his meltdown on II injectors
Click to expand...

Right that's it. Show me a single OEM that intercool's but does not cool after the second stage. We run monotherms and no way we'd do it.

I suppose it's not apples to apples but on my truck I'd take a huge power hit trying to jam the primary air through the air to air. We're already seeing a 8psi drop in the secondary position. It would be a real nasty bottleneck at half the density and double the CFM.
 
Hmmm lots to think about. I've since moved the regulator away from the turbos. Full boost to the bottom port, regulated boost to the top. Seems to work. It's a turbosmart 45mm.


Sent from phone
 
Joesixpack said:
Right that's it. Show me a single OEM that intercool's but does not cool after the second stage. We run monotherms and no way we'd do it.



I suppose it's not apples to apples but on my truck I'd take a huge power hit trying to jam the primary air through the air to air. We're already seeing a 8psi drop in the secondary position. It would be a real nasty bottleneck at half the density and double the CFM.
Click to expand...


I never said it was the right way to plumb the air, I only know what I have heard from him about it. WOP seemed to like it better cooled that way, since the first version of that piping cooled after the secondary only, and was then redone to cool after the primaries exclusively. The primaries in his setup were 64.5mm inducers and the secondary was a 57mm inducer, quite a bit less air trying to be crammed through the intercooler than with your 4508s
 
IIRC, the builders stated they needed to intercool the first stage because they used such a small secondary.
 
It makes a lot of sense to intercool. Won't catch me arguing against it my data is begging for a cooler after the primary's. It's where the lion share of the work is being done.

Honestly not sure why that combo isn't spooling for you and the high EGT's. Tall gears, low stall? Maybe I missed it but do you have a video brake stalling the triples?
 
Joesixpack said:
I should have been more clear, 200 degrees on that stage alone on top of what's feeding it. So 300 degrees+ depending on what's coming out if the intercooler.



Right that's it. Show me a single OEM that intercool's but does not cool after the second stage. We run monotherms and no way we'd do it.

I suppose it's not apples to apples but on my truck I'd take a huge power hit trying to jam the primary air through the air to air. We're already seeing a 8psi drop in the secondary position. It would be a real nasty bottleneck at half the density and double the CFM.
Click to expand...

Looking at some Cat engine data and they list the discharge temps for certain engines and once most of them start passing 30psi the discharge temp is usually north of 350* before the cooler.
 
I'm just going by my own data after the second stage with no IC. It's a much smaller temp jump compared to the first stage but I think it's due to the limited work it can do on the already denser hot air. Now intercool that first stage and the jump could be considerably higher with the secondary able to do more work.

I'd be inclined to try and do as much work on the first stage via waste gate settings rather than running it hard.
 
Goinbyyabig said:
I think using the "air compressor regulator" to adjust boost into a gate is absolutely retarded. I know everybody does it, but it flat doesn't work. Either you are letting boost in or not; the gate doesn't flow any air, so the regulator does nothing more than a ball valve. If it's open, the gate gets all the boost going into the regulator. Hook the regulator up to shop air, and turn it in and out. Use a gauge and see the number change, then put your thumb over the outlet and see the outlet pressure go to whatever the shop air supply is. If it doesn't FLOW, it makes no difference in pressure. I can't believe how many use this, and it's pointless.

OP, try running two springs in the gate and no boost lines at all. If you can, not sure what gate you have. Make sure to leave the gate air ports open to atmosphere. I have tested this extensively on my twin setup, and ended up buying an AMS 500 to achieve the desired air pressure on the gate. All I really end up with when I put 10 or 20 on the gate in addition to the 2 springs is more back pressure. Makes very little difference in boost, trying to run the secondary harder..

I would agree with JSP, Be careful with charge air temps. I would run the truck moderately hard and stop quick and feel the charge pipe going into the motor with your hand. If it's hot, you're asking for trouble. My truck's pipe is cold after a hard blast over 100 mph and 80 psi. Both turbos going through the intercooler.... 80 into a 64, makes about 900 to the tires, stock 06 a/a intercooler.
Click to expand...

I think everybody understands that pressure will still equalize and be the same on both sides of the valve if the air has nowhere to go. However, I know myself and many many others successfully control gates using what is essentially just a ball valve. Hints why you can use a basic "boost controller" or boost elbow and take a factory charger from gating itself at ~23psi to ~40psi. Something most do with an unmolested truck from the get go to make them something worth driving.
 
Wonder what the hot side of that 57mm secondary on the WOP setup was. IIRC they had two gates off the manifold though.

3.55 gears, stock stall converter but that doesn't matter. It spools on the brakes ok. Got a lot of things to check but it sucks ass right now. It's a chore to keep it under 1200* running down the freeway at 75-80 in overdrive.


Sent from phone
 
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