gasket failure

[WAYNES WORLD]

Guys,
What happened to my head gasket??

Check those pictures---OOUUCCHH:doh:

I'm leaning toward injector issues, any ideas????

WAYNES WORLD

 

[satburn]

Hrmmm, looks sort of familiar. What sort of mods are we running here?

And after looking at it further (wish the pics were bigger), but it sure looks like you're running a lot of timing...

 

[luke h]

Head gasket

I blew 2 sets of firerings within a matter of days. Im blaming mine on the ring grooves that got wore into the block (only head was cut). Truck was running 24* timing, 370s, SPS 62/80, B2 twins. Wish i had a pic to see what everybody thought, but there are grooves pressed into the block about a thousandth deep on 1 and 6. 12mm studs were torqued to 126 and then heat toqued at 126.

 

[WAYNES WORLD]

Hrmmm, looks sort of familiar. What sort of mods are we running here?

And after looking at it further (wish the pics were bigger), but it sure looks like you're running a lot of timing...

The mods are-----
piers cam, pump 500 cc, 0 plate, DDP4's, AFC backed way out, 191 DV's, 22* timing, HTT B2 @ 50 max-----
injectors pop tested 1 leaker 261 -290-291-272-279-281- plus the rest of the necessary stuff

Smokem,
Is that the cause of the failure-excess timing??
I used the only gasket Scheid makes with fire rings 1054014012 cummins#
But in only one cylinder ???
These are the same injectors that I have had in for the last 2 years.
How did you arrive at the 34* timing?
Would that destroy only one cylinder?

Thank You,
WAYNES WORLD

 

[WAYNES WORLD]

I blew 2 sets of firerings within a matter of days. Im blaming mine on the ring grooves that got wore into the block (only head was cut). Truck was running 24* timing, 370s, SPS 62/80, B2 twins. Wish i had a pic to see what everybody thought, but there are grooves pressed into the block about a thousandth deep on 1 and 6. 12mm studs were torqued to 126 and then heat toqued at 126.

Luke,

I would like to have seen your failure as well.
How did you torque your head down?
What did you do to stop that from happening again?
I torqued my 12mm studs to 125 but I'm going higher this time.

WAYNES WORLD

 

[Ken in AZ]

The mods are-----
piers cam, pump 500 cc, 0 plate, DDP4's, AFC backed way out, 191 DV's, 22* timing, HTT B2 @ 50 max-----
injectors pop tested 1 leaker 261 -290-291-272-279-281- plus the rest of the necessary stuff

Smokem,
Is that the cause of the failure-excess timing??
I used the only gasket Scheid makes with fire rings 1054014012 cummins#
But in only one cylinder ???
These are the same injectors that I have had in for the last 2 years.
How did you arrive at the 34* timing?
Would that destroy only one cylinder?

Thank You,
WAYNES WORLD

I think what smokem means is that the spray pattern is like it was a stock injector at 34* advanced.....again i say "I think"

 

[luke h]

Washer

I was running the thin washers. Cant remember the size. Stock short bock. The ring grooves were cut in the head at .019. There supposed to be cut at 20 minimum. Im guessing thats were my problem came from. They were A1 12mm studs that i torqued to 126, then double and tripple checked, then i got to operating temp and then torqued again to 126. As for the groove in my block its still there. I will probably be getting a new block since mine is a 53. The first gasket i blew was with the listed mods running wot at 70-75 lbs of boost. The second gasket i blew was at only 30 lbs and didnt blow the firering but blew under the firering. This leads me to think that with the grooves pressed into my block it will never seal. So ill just buy a new block and get receiver grooves cut in it also. Ill also be going to 14mm head and main studs, a .450 cam, girdled, balanced, and different pistons (as soon as i can decide which set i want to run.) The truck has been a major pain and i havent driven it but maybe 500 miles in the past year. wned:

 

[WAYNES WORLD]

Luke H,

What will that cost you?
Just in case I have to go that route-----

Smokem,

Look for a e-mail on this

Ken in AZ,

You hit the nail on the head!!!

WAYNES WORLD

 

[luke h]

Block

I need to find a used block $500-600
receiver grooves in block $250
Drill and tap for 14mm studs $300
Machine hone $150
Ream head for 14mm studs $125 Fly cutpistons $275
Machine for 14 mm main studs $275
Balance $325

That equals out to be to much damn money. But I want it done right the first time!
Any suggestions?

 

[Scooter's Roofing]

at 126 hot, you have less clamping force than at 126 cold.

 

[luke h]

explain

Please explain?

 

[luke h]

Thanks Smokem

 

[Timbeaux]

Who the crap outbid me???

 

[jamesl]

Who the crap outbid me???

sorry...

 

[Timbeaux]

Dang you....................................

 

[Ridemywideglide]

at 126 hot, you have less clamping force than at 126 cold.

I totally aree.. I never understood why guys would hot-torque the head.. :blahblah1:

Please explain?

When the engine/head is hot it's expanded a great deal, torqueing it then only works if it never cools down again. Otherwise as it shrinks back down from cooling off you've lost your torque.. Always torque them COLD as that will net you the most accurate reading...

Brad

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Now you guys know why I don't run fire rings.

Jim

 

[joefarmer]

at 126 hot, you have less clamping force than at 126 cold.

Every time I retorque warm, it results in the marks on the nuts tightening past the mark when they were retorqued cold. In my brain this means a warm retorque is 'tighter' than a cold retorque. No?

brandon.

 

[Ridemywideglide]

I would still say no.. If the head and the bolt are expanded from heat that could be the reason for past the mark of the cold torque, but which one shrinks more as it cools?? if it's the stud then it would make sense that it would increase clamping force when it cooled. If it's the head it would do the opposite.. To my little brain, torque when cold=increased clamp load as the head warms and expands..

 

[luke h]

Heat torque

As the metal contracts from being heated wouldnt it actually put more clamp load down since its contracting the stud also? I guess what im saying is I think torque wouldnt be lost but gained?