Head gasket choices?

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seeker1056

gear head
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Aug 3, 2006
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Ok so I have read most of the many many threads on headgaskets, here and on more than a few other forums, and most if not all of them get hijacked and never really get to an answer.

So:

For those of us without access to a shop who can machine for O-rings or Fire rings - what head gasket using ARP or similar headstuds is the best bet for a 60-70 psi pulling "12valve motor"

You will note that I am speckin copper spray even on mls gaskets - 30 years of experience says it works best in any race motor I ever ran, as compared over a dry install

Please - no opinions or regurgitated suppositions - only real world, personaly experienced, answers so this thread does not get sidetracked or highjacked.

Meaning " I did this and it worked" OR " I did this and it didn't work" - but PLEASE not "I heard" or " I think cuz I read somewhere"

Suppliers please jump in.

Options I am looking at:

Standard "factory" gasket - spray copper coated both sides and studs torqued to 145 psi

Factory marine gasket - spray copper coated both sides and studs torqued to 145 psi

Cometic gasket - spray copper coated - studs torqued to 145 psi

Copper gasket - spray copper coated - studs to 145 psi

Are there better and Other options i havn't considered that may be out there?

thanx in advance guys
Ken
 
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an email today from Cometic:

Ken,At this time we had to take our Cummins gasket back into R & D and are currently not available for sale to the public.

So one option down and gone
 
I know my head has o-rings but so far it holds very well at 50psi street/strip with 70psi drive. Method, which dzlfarmboy can explain in more detail, was torque down stock head bolts (new set) via the garmon method to 140/130 (long or short bolts got the higher torque with the other getting the lower torque) using a stock gasket at the recommendation of Weston. If more detail is required I can PM dzlfarmboy to get those details.

I have used the copper coated spray during head removal and replacement on my ls1 motor in my previous camaro and it held very well on as 500hp n/a motor. Further, I KNOW, my buddy uses the copper spray on his 630hp n/a ls motor and it holds strong.

I know this isn't 100% identical with your intended use but these are my known experiences.

Good luck.

My head came from Pure Diesel Power. Check their prices out, they are very reasonable for o-ringing.
 
copper coated my .10 over modified marine, held 55-57 psi with studs only. (and one head bolt substitued for a broken stud). that was after i re-touqed hot. the first one didn't hold more than a week but i tourqued cold. can't remember if it had copper coat on it or not. don't think so.
 
Nick TF
would love ot hear all of the details as I know nothing of the Garmon method or anything else to do with performance "cummins" headgaskets and studs.

Thats the puprose of this thread - to find out what works consistantly without machine work and the extreme limmits of a headgasket by itself without oring or fire ring

FNSCHLAUD - given your quality machine work and such - please to tell us what yuor proposal is - guys please dont derail his post too much

thanx
Ken
 
Ok, I'll pm Brett (dzlfarmboy) and see what can be done. Honestly I'd think the copper coat would help keep the gasket from moving around but not nearly as well as o-rings crushing into the fire ring of the gasket! I don't have a ton of experience with what works and what doesn't on these motors though.
 
I copper coat the head surface only. Then use the Cummins head gasket. Gasket thickness depends on how much we surfaced off of the head.
We don't always use studs. Especially on 12 valves.
Bolts end up torqued to yield.
Studs torqued to 140ish.
One thing you should know. The "marine" gasket no longer exists.
Any Cummins head gasket you order today is used in Marine and Automotive. Same thing.
 
My idea is,

I believe the CR MLS gasket can be used on a 12v. I have looked at an MLS gasket on a 12v and the only major problem is the location of the oil feed to the rocker in relation to where it passes through the MLS gasket.

My idea is to simply move the oil feed passage in the 12v block. This is not something that could be done in the truck and it would require a full engine tear down for cleanliness. But if the original oil feed port was tapped, plugged with an Allan screw, then the Allen screw cut off and filed to the proper deck height, then using a normal hand drill, another oil passage can be drilled in the location of passage through the MLS gasket, on an angle to the original 12 feed passage.

Have I done this? not yet
This is only a theory and needs further investigation.

Yes, it is a lot of work, but it if does work it will be a lot cheaper than any o-ring or fire ring job.
 
would it not be easier to just drill the oil hole in the gasket?
the unused oil hole would not affect much I wouldnt think.
Whats the difference between the cr gasket and the 12v? tha t would make all that work worhtwhile?
 
seeker1056 said:
would it not be easier to just drill the oil hole in the gasket?
the unused oil hole would not affect much I wouldnt think.
Whats the difference between the cr gasket and the 12v? tha t would make all that work worhtwhile?
Click to expand...

If you chose to use the CR gasket it is probably due to the fact that you don't want to cut the head or block for rings.
The CR gasket is the MLS design so the rings don't serve a purpose.
 
seeker1056 said:
so can a CR headgasket be modified to work on a 12v?
Click to expand...


I have used 12v gaskets on a CR with no changes to the gasket. So I really don't see why not. Personally though, if we are doing a 12v we cut the head for .041 orings and stick to the 12v gasket.
 
yes but for those of us without acces to a competent machine shop thats not a choice

Is the mls gasket a better choice over the 12v??
 
Just to keep this thread going, does anybody have any experience with the Schied/Haisley head gasket with copper rings already in the gasket that requires no machine work to the head or block? (as long as they are both flat)
I want more info on this setup because it is what I am thinking will be the easiest way for me to go if it works.
 
i beleive that was the doomed Cometic gasket that didnt work - similar to the Phusion gasket - also didnt work
 
seeker1056 said:
yes but for those of us without acces to a competent machine shop thats not a choice

Is the mls gasket a better choice over the 12v??
Click to expand...

Here are some pic of the two gaskets side by side.
 
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i beleive that was the doomed Cometic gasket that didnt work - similar to the Phusion gasket - also didnt work
Click to expand...

I dont think so, (i know we arent suppoust to say this in this thread) my buddie has one that has held up very welll on his puller for the past year, and i wanted to hear somebody else's experiences with them...
It is not a cometic gasket though i have looked into them...
 
ben99 said:
I dont think so, (i know we arent suppoust to say this in this thread) my buddie has one that has held up very welll on his puller for the past year, and i wanted to hear somebody else's experiences with them...
It is not a cometic gasket though i have looked into them...
Click to expand...

i dont know your application but the copper fire-ringed gaskets are not meant for daily driving...just something for on-lookers to keep in mind
 
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